Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, so the scenes where she is strolling merrily across the Delta Quadrant in search of coffee without any kind of sense of urgency are really the "out of character" scenes, and the writers had us cleverly fooled because she's really like a nutcase bitch?
     
  2. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Unforgettable: Completely filler, but still decent. I liked the guest stars and the sci fi concept of a species that cannot be remembered. I really felt bad for Chakotay at the end.
    5/10

    Living Witness: I loved seeing the evil Voyager crew, and the main storyline was interesting. A good social commentary on history and the truth.
    Not bad, not bad.
    7/10
     
  3. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Living Witness" is generally considered Voyager's top-notch episode that can easily stand aside the top episodes of the rest of Trek. Personally its not one of my absolute favorites although I do feel its a very good episode with a fascinating concept and fascinating concepts was definitely something that Voyager had in spades.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    (a Spalko creation..)
     
  5. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Living Witness is indeed my most favorite Trek episode ever, even though I pretty much dislike Voyager.
     
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This was like "Concerning Flight" for me.
    Much like John Ryes Davies, they took a great acting talent like Virgina Madsen and gave hera part with little to no substance. It came off like a badly written alternate version of "Counterpoint".
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ah, "Living Witness". Some unfortunate questions concerning the backup module aside, I love this episode, especially the final reveal. And I would love to know whatever happened to the Doctor.
     
  8. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Demon: Hokey science and Wang's awful acting aside, this was a fairly decent episode. I loved the set design of the planet, and I thought the Doctor/Neelix scenes in sickbay were really funny. I kept thinking for the first half of the episode that the liquid substance on the planet was a member of the same species as Armus from TNG's Skin of Evil. I'm not sure if the writers even considered doing that, but I think it would have made for a really interesting follow up to Skin of Evil. The possibilities...
    But, as for what the liquid actually turned out to be...I thought it was sort of interesting. A species that discovers what it means to sentient when it comes into contact with humans is original...I guess. The way Janeway resolved the issue by giving them the DNA of the crew members was very much in the spirit of Trek.
    All and all, not too shabby.
    6/10
     
  9. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Demon" is one of the worst Star Trek episodes ever for me and I don't believe many people even like it. It started off promisingly by having the ship run out of energy but then devolved into a very lame "weird alien planet adventure" story which just did not hold my interest one bit.
    Jammer only gave it half a star, which is about right imo.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That is certainly one of my least favorite episodes to the point where I think I have only seen it 2 times. Once the first time, once to see if it was as utterly awful as I thought it was. In fact I'd forgotten all about it, I don't think I've even listed it when a "worst ep" thread comes up because I have blanked it from my mind.

    hmm... that means if I rewatch it some of it will be almost new since I tend to completely forget stuff. Can I bring myself to do it..
     
  11. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, it worked in Spider-Man with the symbiote...
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    "Demon" is kind of stupid, but I rather like the sequel to the episode. I won't say the name, as it's a bit of a spoiler, but you'll know it when you see it.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Demon indicates that Janeway would have volunteered her crew to caretaker for all that husbandry if he had just asked nicely. Though Q asked Nicely "eventually" and she turned him down.

    It seems, third times a charm.

    Isn't that one of the gags from Austin Powers 2?
     
  14. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The confusion between DNA and memories was very annoying, as was the Neelix/Doctor BS in sickbay. Another episode marred by the subliterate belief that exposition's just technobabble. Plus this was rather cheaply done, cutting corners to the point it made the plot hard to follow. How did the originals of Tom and Harry end up in the Founder goo?

    But even with these flaws the climax was the kind of thing that Trek really did do well, as opposed to moronic space wars. The rather elementary notion that we could and should see wonder and beauty in the physical world around us is astonishingly rare in television and movie scifi. The inexplicable novelty and truth of the theme earns this episode respect.

    PS Just for giggles, actually bothered to look up the Jammer review. I don't know whether he thought the episode desecreated the concept of the Founders or what. But it was written as an actual attack on Voyager fans, purporting to expose their uncritical take. The problem for him is that he couldn't get the logic right. For instance, he cannot correctly compare deuterium to gasoline, and claim Voyager stupidly ran out of fuel because they didn't bother to take it, much less draw the conclusion that the fans were just too moronic to get it. tThe ship was supposed to pick up deuterium from interstellar gas, which makes it more like oxygen. Nobody can be faulted for not tanking up on oxygen when they cross the Mojave desert. (Incidentally, most likely the deuterium was missing because it was collected on the demon planet, inasmuch as deuterium is not commonly found in massive amounts at such high concentrations.) Nor did he catch the rather obvious implication that the Founder goo grabbed Tom and Harry and that they had been preserved because the stuff was cryogenic. He didn't even seem to comprehend that this was not a character centered show but a thematically centered show. It could have been Tom who made the arguments on behalf of the new Founders, although honestly it's hard to imagine McNiell coping with the dialogue. You may not like episodes with a thesis but it's just obtuse to claim there's no point. I am no longer amazed that such stupid shit as this review is acceptable as wit and insight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  15. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    One: Another terrific 7 of 9 episode! By the end of the episode she has a much greater understanding of companionship and its importance. I also think that this is one of the darker episodes we've seen this season. 7's hallucinations at the end are very frightening. I loved the scenes with the alien, the Borg, and Harry and Kim being set on fire. Great set design and lighting.
    No complaints.
    8/10
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have you ever heard New York, New York, so good they named it twice?

    You mentioned Harry's death twice.

    Good wasn't it?
     
  17. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I agree with your review of it.
    Not sure if it's 6 on my scale but it's far from the worst ep. of the series.
     
  18. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm still constantly amazed by your nonsensical and paranoid ramblings.
     
  19. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Holy crap, you're right! My mistake. I meant Paris and Kim.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, no this wasn't a criticism.

    Just wishful thinking.

    Every script should have killed that Kid at least twice.
     

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