Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    The minute I heard about VOY I wondered how they'd address the Borg issue.

    That being said, the idea that "Scorpion" or "Dark Frontier" were better than BoBW makes me chuckle a bit. I'd be curious to see what they would have done with BoBW if they'd had the FX advances that were available by the time of VOY.
     
  2. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    All things being equal, especially after so many years, I think I definitely prefer "Scorpion" to "BOBW." It's not a question of visual effects. Over the years, I've just come to realize that I greatly prefer the Voyager characters to the TNG ones. That said, my favorite parts of BOBW have nothing to do with the Borg. I much prefer the quieter scenes, like the one between Picard and Guinan when they discuss the oncoming battle, the scene between Deanna and Riker about what he really wants and how he's not as ambitious as he used to be, and the "That is now your chair" discussion between Guinan and Riker in Part 2.
     
  3. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    BOBW's claim to fame was the possibility of losing Picard, and the threat of assimilation. Take those two things away and the plot isn't anything Trek hadn't done before (it's the plot of TMP except the Borg were more hostile and weaker than V'Ger).

    Also, it was the first time Trek ever did the cliffhanger at the end of the season trick and the lack of internet meant we were truly taken by surprise.

    Lastly, the fandom wasn't out to hate TNG before it started like it was with VOY.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I wasn't out to hate VOY before it started.

    But then, plenty of fans were out to hate TNG before it started too, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.
     
  5. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    California
    I recall being extremely excited about Voyager before the premier. And internet WAS around back then, so I knew quite a bit about what the show was intended to be.
     
  6. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    Seven of Nine is the reason "Dark Frontier" is better than "Best of Both Worlds". The show has a real emotional center which I don't really get as much BOBW.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Dark Frontier was too Disney.

    Even though, the Hanson's are the worst parents in science fiction since Vader cut Luke's hand off.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Hey, I'm pretty sure Vader had told Luke to stop touching himself previously, but he just wouldn't listen...
     
  9. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    The last several days have been extremely busy, so I haven't had a lot of time to watch Voyager. Here are some updates:

    Raven: I'd had such a long day by the time I got around to watching this that I couldn't stay awake for most of it. At some point I'll get around to watching it again.

    Scientific Method: I really liked the Tom/B'Ellana scenes at the beginning, and the main plot was fairly interesting as well. I liked the message they were trying to get across about animal experimentation and how unfair and unethical it was (and still is). All in all a fine episode. I don't have any major complaints.
    5/10

    Year of Hell Part 1 and 2: This is the most exciting 2 parter I've seen in a while. I loved the dark atmosphere and the feeling of hopelessness that this episode created for the crew of Voyager. Seeing Janeway pushed to the extreme was interesting, and I thought the Krenim were really interesting characters. Also, good continuity with Before and After. Everything Kes predicted about the Year of Hell came true. Well, mostly everything.
    No complaints, except for the minor issue of the reset button at the end.
    9/10
     
  10. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    I think "The Raven" is a nearly great episode marred by the tacked on ending where Tuvok and Seven have to get out of the ship because of the attack by needlessly aggressive aliens™.
    "Scientific Method" is a fun story and I always like it when we get to see Janeway actually show some emotion. One thing that bothers me is when Janeway talks about people being too lax on the ship though, since it really reminds you that there is so little different about Voyager compared to other Starfleet ships/crews despite its wholly unique situation. Nonetheless I enjoyed it.

    I have mixed feelings about "Year of Hell" although I do feel it was a well written, acted and directed two-parter. I think I'm probably a little sour on the episode since it was originally a story in which Kes was to play an important role and while I was immensely enjoying Seven at this point in the show, I was missing the presence Kes too. I don't like how they basically didn't address Kes's warning about the Krenim. Some say that the temporal waves meant that Kes's warning never happened but I find that to be a completely BS explanation.
    The only explanation I can think of is that species 8472's introduction into the AQ changed the original course of events meaning that Kes left the ship and the events of "Before and After" never happened - but even that doesn't really make much sense. Quite simply, I still think that "Year of Hell" stands somewhat uncomfortably with "Before and After" and if Kes had still been around, I'd probably have enjoyed it a whole lot more.
    I just wish we'd got the year-long Year of Hell arc that was proposed, the reset button is certainly a pain.
     
  11. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Yeah, me too.
     
  12. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    That sounds like it could have been epic. Why was this idea shot down?
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Because TPTB didn't want to serialize the show to that degree....or, really, too much at all.
     
  14. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    UPN liked the show to be more episodic. They certainly shifted the episode order enough in the early seasons that any attempt at heavy serialization would have been messy.
     
  15. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Random Thoughts: Semi-interesting aliens of the week and a semi-interesting message about how prohibiting certain things can have positive and negative effects makes for a semi-interesting episode.
    5/10

    Concerning Flight: This was episode was pure fun! Seeing Leonardo da Vinci interacting with the future reminded me a lot of Mark Twain interacting with the TNG cast in Time's Arrow. This episode had a lot of laughs, and I think Janeway and da Vinci made for a great team!
    8/10
     
  16. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    Oh boy, do we have different tastes. "Concerning Flight" an 8/10!? It SHOULD have been fun but there was a real lack of energy or humor about the episode, it was just written to be boring instead of funny. I liked "Random Thoughts" much more.
     
  17. Lord Manitou

    Lord Manitou Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think fully depicting Leonardo is always great. There can be no telling how real this ep can be, if it really happened. The ep. also shows how great the holo-deck is and it's program. This is an extension of Leonardo de Vinci coming from a computer that is temporarily disabled on an alien planet and its not necessary anyway because of the mobile emitter.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Considering they could have brought Flint back?

    "excuse me, can you tell me the way to the... Master Leonardo!?"

    "oh my, I haven't been called by that name in over 700 years."

    A complete waste of resources.
     
  19. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Someone with the acting skills of John Rhys Davies deserved a way better episode than the boring filler of an ep. he got. For all Janeways talk about how she idolized him and wanted to work next to him, we never see him again after this.

    What a waste.
     
  20. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I really consider it one of the worst eps of VOY, for blandness. There is some interesting 7 interaction though.