Doctor Who style Trek?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by FreddyE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Savious

    Savious Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I can’t argue with that statement; it is the current trend, and not the trend for every military on earth, or throughout history.

    But even so, many militaries did create regiments, and people joined that regiment, and moved up through that regiment, never transferring outside of it.

    Just as, in early days of sailing; many ships would hire on a crew, and then use that crew for the entire voyage, and only recrew after the voyage was over, and a new voyage was being set up.

    So, in that aspect, I would suspect that you wouldn’t have crew transfers.

    But, I would argue, that most of the time, the reason why there wasn’t transfers, was simply that it wasn’t feasible to have them. In the early days of sailing, when a ship left port, it was impossible to change the crew, or have crew members transfer out; because there was no way to move the personnel around. Even so, I suspect, that some history buff will point out, that when ships passed each other from the same nation, that some people did transfer. Just as I suspect, that some officers would transfer from one Army regiment to another regiment, when they weren’t engaged in hostile territory.

    The reason why today’s military conducts transfers, is because it is possible to do so; and in the Star Trek universe, they have the capability, unless they are on a deep space mission, to conduct the transfers. Even Kirk, on his five year mission, went past star bases from time to time; I suspect to restock on redshirts….LOL

    I guess the bottom line; I can see both arguments; and although it may not be the best model for a deep space exploration in Star Trek, like Voyager; I think it would have be a good model to pursue in a show like DS9 or TNG.
     
  2. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    True, but that's not Star Trek done Doctor Who style.
     
  3. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    The points about Trek not having to duplicate 21st century America to be realistic are quite well thought out and quite correct. I just think that crew transfers/deaths/promotions etc are good for character development. Lee Adama on BSG was great as a pilot/military guy, but moving him into the political realm broadened his horizons and opened up new storytelling fronts. I'd just like to see the same willingness to shake things up and develop characters in Trek.
     
  4. Savious

    Savious Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    It wasn’t Trek, nor even Sci-Fi; but I loved how people came and went in Rescue me; you never knew who was sticking around as a main character, and who was going to be there for only a few shows.
     
  5. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the main problem with time travel in Star Trek was that good use of time travel was underdone, while bad use of time travel was overdone. It has always been an opportunity to explore something great, from moments of Earth's past, to the history of the crew to unconventional story lines, but that opportunity has been missed, and then utterly ruined by the temporal cold war which revolved around “OMG TIME TRAVEL!!1”.

    And I would much prefer to see such stories done in Star Trek fashion, not Doctor Who fashion, because Star Trek's take is more serious. Sometimes way too serious though.

    But if there was a story type I would like to see more is undesired contacts with 20/21st century-level societies with accidental prime directive violations. ;) But only if they are done well.
     
  6. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The modern audience isnt going to know or care how militaries were in the olden days, but they'd know how things works nowadays in a general sense, so that's going seem right to them. But the real reason to rotate characters more is not "realism" but dramatic impact and flexibility.

    It's obvious that Roddenberry modeled Star Trek on the US Navy, which he had personal experience with. Where do you think the USS Enterprise got its name?
     
  7. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    He was in the US Army Air Forces.
     
  8. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And Star Trek is more modeled on the Age of Sail and Horatio Hornblower than the Army/Navy Roddenberry new in the 1960s.
     
  9. The Green Mushroom

    The Green Mushroom Commander Red Shirt

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    In that day in age, at least according to the book sitting right next to my computer:

    • The officers were often recruited by the captain or recommended to him, along with many of what we would today call the non-commissioned officers
    • A good captain was expected to both recruit people he has served with in the past AND have at least a small corps of officers and men who WANTED to join him on the next mission if their schedules worked out
    • Most of the officers and crew were brought only for one specific assignment/voyage/mission/war and then sent off on their merry ways as soon as the ship came home.
    • Other important members of the crew worked for the ship and not the captain, to put it simply. They were permanently assigned to the ship and refitted it in port and sailed with it on missions.
    In other words, Scotty being married to the Enterprise and everyone else always tagging along with Kirk would have made perfect sense if this ship was set on His Majesty's Sailing Frigate Enterprise. Heck, Sulu hanging around with Kirk until the Excelsior was ready and Chekov coming back after being dumb enough to let 300 year old terrorists steal his ship wouldn't have raised any eyebrows.
     
  10. Savious

    Savious Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Which would then smack right in the face of TNG, and Picard being assigned Riker as the 1st officer.

    If, it was originally based on the age of sail; by the time we hit TNG, they updated their assignment operations.
     
  11. The Green Mushroom

    The Green Mushroom Commander Red Shirt

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    I cannot remember the episode, but didn't Picard tell Riker that he found him out of a pile of recommended first officers?

    Plus we have:

    • Sisko requesting a Bajoran first officer, hiring Worf, and seemingly summoning Dax to join him, though she could be a coincidence.
    • Tuvok seems to have been on Voyager because of Janeway.
    • Starfleet recruiting Riker to be captain instead of just giving him orders.
    • Shelby lobbying for Riker's job--directly implying that Picard could offer it to her.
    • Worf leaving Starfleet after DS9 and then having no trouble rejoining Picard for Nemesis
     
  12. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So Roddenberry had no personal experience with the US Navy while serivng in the Pacific in WWII? I wonder how he managed that feat. Perhaps he used a rowboat to get around. He was certainly more familiar with the WWII era US Navy than with any entites that existed before he was born, and which he knew only from fiction and historical accounts.

    And in his first draft, Roddenberry named his ship the USS Yorktown after yet another WWII aircraft carrier. Cmon, it's obvious that his military experience was a big influence on his concept of the series. The fact that he had multiple influences doesnt change that. Next, you guys will be saying that its all based on Conestoga wagons because he pitched the series as Wagon Train to the Stars.

    Not that any of this is particuarly germane to the real point, which is that rotating cast members would be a more interesting and gutsy approach for a new series.

    And trying to figure out the influences by looking at the content of the series itself is a lost cause because the military rules were made up based on what works best for a TV series, not because Horatio Hornblower would approve. The characters stayed on the same ship for years because TV shows are loathe to kill off main characters, because of actors' contracts and the assumption that the audience would be angry seeing their favorite characters axed. But TV has changed enough over the years that, at least on cable, the old broadcast assumptions no longer need apply.
     
  13. Savious

    Savious Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Well; I don’t know about other militaries; but I can tell you that in the US; by name requests still happen, and they happen on a regular basis.

    But, even with that, many people are told where to go; or the petition to be told where to go, and often can and do turn down certain aspects.

    For example, if you join the US army, no one can order you to go to Airborne school; it may be the same in Starfleet for taking a command; someone may be able to turn a command down, which Riker more or less did.

    Sisko requested a Bajoran officer, but he didn’t request a specific person; but he did specifically request Worf.

    I got the feeling Shelby was making her pitch more to the Admiral than anyone else.

    In any case; I have to agree with Temis; it’s not so much what they did do; or what Starfleet did; it’s more should that be an area to pursue; and I think it would add a dynamic to the show, few other shows have approached; and if done right, could make the show run a lot longer, and better. Dr. Who, is the perfect example there, it keeps on going and going and going, because the cast never gets old.
     
  14. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    He was a Bomber pilot. He probably flew. His actual shipboard interaction with the Navy was probably limited to being a passenger once or twice. On shore, who can say? Inter-service rivalry has been known to kick up a ruckus or two. ;)

    I would agree that his war time service probably shaped Star Trek's development. The other Gene (Coon) was a Marine so his knowledge of the Navy would have been closer to the source. Hornblower like "Wagon Train" was just away of pitching Star Trek in terms people ( TV executives and sponsors) would understand.
     
  15. Pondslider

    Pondslider Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I really like the idea of making the crew be more fluid and/or bigger and getting away from the idea of having 7 main characters and sort of trying to fit them all into boxes leftover from TOS.

    I also think that if Trek is going to come back to TV it should take a page from Doctor Who and other "genre" shows and have shorter seasons and one arc connecting each episode. Twelve or thirteen episodes seem to be the norm for shows like Who, Walking Dead, True Blood, etc. It would save the budget, maybe attract bigger named actors to commit to the show even if just for a few episodes and make every episode count. No filler. They can still go to this random planet over here to settle some kind of dispute or investigate this anomaly over there, but there should be something pushing the overall plot ahead. I think this would also keep them from falling into some of the same cliches that past series did.

    I had forgotten, until I started rewatching over the summer, that TNG seemed to attempt this during season two by working hints about the Conspiracy plot into episodes throughout the season leading up to Picard's confrontation at Starfleet. I don't know why they seemed to abandon this later in the series. It doesn't have to be as frantic as The Walking Dead or as big and heavy as DS9's dominion war, but I think having each season set out to tell one story in an overall bigger story would be ideal and hopefully keep people interested.
     
  16. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    One way to avoid having one crew would be to follow more than one ship. The show could be about a fleet (in the rather loose terms for a non-war Trek), or about an event or period of time. It could have an episode, a mini-arc, or even a whole season (depending on length of season) about one ship, then switch to another. Depending on what the overall show was about, it could even follow a non-Starfleet ship for a story or two. It could (and probably would) return to past ships, to see what they are up to now.