Doctor Who from the start (by a n00b)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Start Wreck, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    The Five Faces season wasn't edited into movies, they ran the original episodes, but stripped four days a week. For five weeks on Mondays, we had the first episode of a vintage Doctor Who at 5.40, then The Adventure Game, and then after a half hour gap, a new episode of Blake's 7!
    The movie compilations were earlier, between about '72 and '77, when there'd be one or two each Christmas (from '78 onwards, the Beeb went over to running two or three complete stories in the summer instead). Oh, and the 1982 vintage repeats season, Doctor Who and the Monsters, was re-edited, into two double length episodes for each story.

    But of course, to get back to the original point, there weren't any Doctor Who repeats during the 60s, which is the era that's missing, aside from a repeat of the first episode the following week, and of Evil of the Daleks in summer '68.
     
  2. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I know The Five Faces Of Doctor Who weren't exdited into movie format, but repeats from the '70s were. And of course there no or few repeats in the '60s because the wasn't off the air for long til the end of the Troughton era.
     
  3. Cutter John

    Cutter John Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    The sad thing is if they'd waited just a few more years, the VCR boom would have opened up a huge new demand.
     
  4. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Every episode exists in one form or another, even if it is just audio with pictures. I've been watching fan-made reconstructions. They're not particularly difficult to find.

    I felt it was worth sticking with because you do get characters referring back to things that happened in these 'missing' stories, and it's nice to get a complete picture of what's been happening (even though generally the stories are not linked to each other).
     
  5. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  6. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not a fan of the Third Doctor at all, but there are quite a lot of fine stories in this era, and I liked Planet of the Spiders. In fact, I thought Pertwee was rather good in it.
     
  7. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am deep into Baker territory now, and the show has improved immeasurably!

    Some highlights so far:


    The Sontaran Experiment
    Pyramids of Mars
    The Deadly Assassin
    The Robots of Death
     
  8. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Glad you like Robots of Death. And on the whole, that season (Masque of Mandragora through to Talons of Weng-Chiang) must be one of the best ever made: when Hand of Fear and Face of Evil are competing for weakest story of the season, it's a pretty good season!
     
  9. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm up to Tom Baker's final series now, and the 1980s brings with it a welcome change in tone and style (and a cool new theme tune!).

    The Leisure Hive
     
  10. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

  11. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^Cool, I think we broadly agree on a lot of those early Hartnell stories. I really disliked the historical ones, though. Some of them were quite hard-going. It's much better now; I hope to keep watching until the very end. :)

    I finally finished up Tom Baker's seven seasons, and have written a summary, with my picks of best serials from his run (which were pretty hard to choose).

    http://doctorwhofromthestart.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/the-fourth-doctor-summary-best-episodes/

    A short break now, then I'll move onto the Davison era...
     
  12. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Not a bad summary, but the lack of mention for Talons and Genesis of the Daleks is kinda baffling. I thought those would be default must-see stories.
     
  13. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, as I mentioned in my GotD review, I found it a bit underwhelming after all the "hype". It basically introduces a face to what should be a faceless enemy, turning them into mindless drones, and retconning an origin story that worked perfectly well just being alluded to in the original Dalek serial, 'The Daleks'. That's why it didn't make my top spot, although I did still enjoy it.

    Talons was ok but a bit racist.
     
  14. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Racist? I didn't think so at all. Because the villain's a Chinese? That doesn't preclude racism, that simply implies that everyone can be fooled, and the Chinese antagonist is actually played with a sympathetic light.

    As for Genesis, it provided with the most tangible and important dilemma in the Doctor's life. As far as retcons go, its one of the best ones ones, and thats because it did introduce an iconic new villain, and it present the environment in which the Daleks were given birth into. Its a fascinating social study of the Kelads and the Thals, and a great character study for the Doctor and Davros, and honestly, one of the best serials of Old Who, ever.

    In sharp contrast, The Leisure Hive is sheer crap. Its an overproduced piece of fluff, with very little story and that barely makes any sense. If it weren't for Tom Baker's charm and wit, it would've been even worse.
     
  15. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nah, more that he's played by an obviously English man, made up with false eyelids to look "a bit Chinese" and put on a "me so solly" type accent, while characters refer to him as "yellow", etc. I found it mildly uncomfortable in parts.

    As for Genesis, I beg to differ. The plight of the Thals and the Kaleds was more effective when it was simply alluded to in the original story. Giving the Daleks a "master" was like giving the Borg a "Queen" - an unnecessary complication that essentially "de-fangs" them. The Doctor's dilemma over their fate is a brilliant moment, however; and Davros himself does have an excellent presence. As I say, I liked it a lot, just not as much as others.

    Leisure Hive got in more on style and tone, I admit. :)
     
  16. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, but Leisure Hive is all style and no substance. Genesis's retcon on the Daleks origin presented with a palpable, potent, really powerful moral dilemma that has been, since then, the creative lynchpin for everything Who-related since. And, for good reason.
     
  17. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Possibly, but that's "Destiny of the Daleks"'s fault. In "Genesis", Davros was not the Daleks' master, he was their creator.
     
  18. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Swish!

    They did "kill" him at the end, after all.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yea, there's been numerous references/instances where he has been abandoned by them or outright rebelled against (IE: Different Factions of Daleks, some not wanting anything to do with him). He was their Creator, and they look to him for "original thought" at times, but, being their "Master" is incredibly rare. More like Chief Strategist. Now, definitely Davros' goal is to be their master, but, things rarely go his way
     
  20. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    My first exposure to the Daleks was "Genesis..." when my PBS affiliate started airing the Tom Baker serials in 1982, so you would assume that's how I would want my Daleks, as "created" monsters that rebel against their maker, Davros. But once I finally saw their original 1963 serial, I found I like that version best. Even as early as their second appearance, "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", thematically they had devolved into cliched "robo-nazis from outer space". In their first appearance, they were "tragic" characters, almost to be pitied. Let me explain.

    With Davros we learn the Daleks were "created", even "programmed"; they had no choice in their fate. But according to "The Dead Planet", it was a gradual descent into "ugliness" of their own choosing. The Daleks were originally a learned people. Ironically, the Thals were the "villains". By their own admission, the Thals attacked the Daleks, waging a war that finally pressured the latter to perform the most desperate of acts, employ nuclear weapons. The bombs nearly destroyed both sides. The few surviving Thals retreated to their side of the planet and the remaining Daleks hunkered within the ruins of their cities.

    Radiation took its toll and each successive generation suffered ever worsening mutations. The genetic "scarring" got so bad that they engineered machines to aid their crippled bodies, eventually resulting in static powered, mobile "iron lungs", the iconic "travel macines". Perhaps more tragically, The Daleks' collective psyches followed the path of their bodies, each new generation growing ever more fearful, outright paranoid that the dreaded Thals might eventually return to wage war again. When the Thals do return centuries later, they are in no position to fight (not until Ian motivates them). In fact, they are barely "hanging on". But do the Daleks see this? No, they have let fear and suspicion consume their every waking thought that their response to "exterminate" before they themselves can be exterminated.

    But it didn't have to end like that. No one "programmed" the Daleks. They could have chosen diplomacy, negotiation. They had the technology; the Thals had a potential "cure". (Yeah, the drug had a lethal effect upon the Daleks, that's why I stated "potential".) But their "cold war" paranoia made them lash out, prompting the Thals to retaliate just as the Daleks feared they would.

    So, from my perspective, those original Daleks were pitiful, "tragic" characters, and thus had more emotional depth than their later depictions.

    Sincerely,

    Bill