Doctor Who, first time through

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Hober Mallow, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's actually only 5 of the Troughton Stories 100% intact, and then The Invasion has 2 episodes that have been animated, so that's a total of 6 comeplete stories. The Moonbase and The Ice Warriors have only 2 episodes each missing, and there are good Fan reconstructions (Moonbase = Animated Telesnaps; Ice Warriors = 17 minutes of stills for the combined 2 missing episodes) that you should be able to watch on Youtube or Dailymotion. The rest of the troughton and Hartnell that have missing episodes, you can find Fan reconstuctions with primitive animation or Telesnaps on Dailymotion or Youtube. Plus, I believe the soundtracks for the missing stories can be purchased on Audio.
     
  2. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I watched The Sensorites and was happy to see the Doctor doing some lead stuff. I was also happy to hear them talk more about the Doctor's greater arc. I also noticed the Doctor referred to his "heart" rather than "hearts" in one scene.

    I've been curious about how the other lost episodes are handled. Marco Polo looked great because it had a ton of screenshots taken from it, but I'm guessing that not all episodes were as lucky? I'm a little apprehensive of seasons three to four because I know that a ton of episodes are missing from them.
     
  3. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Marco Polo Fan reconstruction was treated to color Telesnaps, and a very clear picture and nice soundtrack. The rest of the reconstructions, are all black and white telesnaps (Or as I said, you can find some primitive "stick figure" quality animation if you prefer), some of them, the video quality is not necessarily the best and the audio is not always the best, but, they're out there. Just google videos for Youtube or other similar streaming sites with the name of the overall Story and you'll find them (And of course, the Lost in Time Box set(s) contain the existing episodes that are not complete stories yet)
     
  4. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I actually have all the episodes on a hard drive, I just haven't put them on my computer yet.
     
  5. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Concerning the perceived "underuse" of the Doctor in the earliest serials...

    From what I've read the Doctor was to serve more as a catalyst for getting Ian, Barbara and Susan entrenched within each new adventure. At least, that was some of the notations Sydney Newman and Verity Lambert passed back and forth to each other when developing the series. He'd get the "comapnions" to their destination and then do something that would, in event, get them into trouble. Looking at it that way, the Doctor sounds almost like, well, a Dr. Smith type character! Certainly the first two stories followed that format.

    Additional themes discussed were calling upon the knowledge of the two teachers. If the story was to be "futuristic", then Ian's skills as a science teacher would help them resolve the crisis. If they traveled to the past, Barbera's knowledge of history would eventually get them out of a jam. Newman envisioned "Doctor Who" to be something akin to (what we call today as) an edu-tainment show. He did NOT want it to be a series about "bug-eyed" monsters.

    However, because the "treatment" he wanted to follow the prehistory adventure did not pan out (for reasons I can't remember), a story about nuclear war survivors was pushed to the fore. Sydney Newman was supposedly upset about having this story appear so soon , seemingly defying his mandate about "mosnters", but the production had little recourse. When Newman saw the ratings for "The Daleks", even he couldn't refute its success and resigned himself to the fact this series was going to take a far science fantasy slant.

    And the rest, as they say, is history.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  6. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, but it's NOT about him. Yes, it's called Doctor Who, but The Maltese Falcon isn't actually about the statue. it's about what happens because of it. :-)
     
  7. Phillip Culley

    Phillip Culley Captain Captain

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    Actually, of the 27 missing stories, 16 of them have a complete set of off-air tele-snaps (both Marco Polo and The Enemy of the World are missing the snaps from their fourth episodes, but are otherwise complete). Of the 10 stories without tele-snaps, 6 of them are from Season 3 (likely because the producer at the time made the decision not to use the services of the guy who took them).
     
  8. The Lensman

    The Lensman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Add another one to the list. Got done with "The Daleks" last night, will be knocking out "Edge Of Destruction" tonight.

    I've come to enjoy "An Unearthly Child" more upon each viewing....yet Dalek episodes still to tend to grate on me. I do prefer the smarter Daleks of earlier days, but still not a fan of them.
     
  9. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    That sucks lemons.

    That would explain why Netflix only has 5 of his episodes.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all the missing episodes still exist in audio if in no other form?

    Just got "Edge" in the mail. I'll be watching it tonight.
     
  10. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, all the missing episodes have their audio intact, hence the ability for the Reconstuctions to be done with Telesnaps. Though the Ice Warriors is missing two episodes back to back, and their reconstruction is only 17 minutes long, so, perhaps this one story is missing a bit of audio (Or maybe there's long gaps of silence or something).

    Some of the telesnap Reconstructions are so good, you almost don't notice you're not watching moving video
     
  11. Phillip Culley

    Phillip Culley Captain Captain

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    The audio exists for all the missing episodes; if anything is missing then we're talking about brief cliffhanger reprises which are duplicated on the episodes surrounding it.

    Certainly The Ice Warriors has a complete soundtrack - the 17 minute long recon was one specially made for the VHS release when it was determined that a full-length reconstruction would be impractical for general release, however the complete soundtrack was included as a bonus CD with the release. Numerous complete recons of the missing Ice Warriors episodes have been made over the years.

    And there are 6 complete Troughtons (The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Dominators, The Mind Robber, The Krotons, The Seeds of Death and The War Games) as well as 2 almost complete (The Ice Warriors and The Invasion, both of which are missing 2 episodes out of 6 and 8 respectively). All the other stories have at most 50% existing and aside from the recently-discovered second episode of The Underwater Menace have all been released on Lost in Time.
     
  12. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, crud, how, did I forget about Tomb of the Cybermen being complete :alienblush:
     
  13. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Okay, just watched "Edge" last night.

    Interesting, to say the least. I'm reminded of TNG, where very often the money-saving episodes ("The Drumhead," "The First Duty") turn out to be the strongest character pieces of the series. Lots of surprises for me in this episode. Mainly, I'm surprised such a complex plot could make it in a children's show back in the 60s. We get the first indication that the Tardis is more than just a machine. The surprise, to me, though, is that the Doctor doesn't seem to know anything about this. Curiouser and couriouser. And we get the first hint that the Doctor has had a longer history of getting into trouble and finding adventure in space and time before Ian and Barbara came along.

    The performances were all good. Who knew Susan could be so frightening? It was essential for a plot set entirely within the confines of the Tardis set that the performances carry the story, and they did. And -- call me crazy -- but I'm beginning to find Barbara extremely attractive.

    The Marco Polo reconstruction was interesting. It doesn't seem like near enough material for a seven-episode arc, or whatever it was. I'm wondering if it would have plodded along at a snail's pace? In any case, it was interesting enough as a condensced version, and I thought the reconstruction was put together well with the stills, audio, and limited subtitles.

    I have a question, though -- are other reconstructions included on the DVD sets as special features? Or was this just a special case on the DOCTOR WHO: THE BEGINNING set. I'm hoping many, most, or all missing episode reconstructions are included on the DVDs. In that case, it would be worth it for me to order all the DVDs from Netflix rather than stream the ones available for streaming.

    In a way, that's too bad, because I was always tantalized by the possibility there could have something in those missing episodes that would totally contradict everything about DOCTOR WHO we learned later. Like, I always thought it would be funny if a missing episode were found in which Hartnell's Doctor confesses to someone that he's a full-blooded human from the year 4536. I guess there's no chance of that, then. :) Not that fans wouldn't come up with brilliant explanations to explain the line away, like the infamous "half-human" line from the 1996 movie. :)
     
  14. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree with first hint Doctor has been getting into trouble, because before Barbara and Ian's first adventure, Susan said in the Unearthly Child Earth 1960s was her favorite place, that implies she's had other adventures to compare with.

    I don't see any problem with a straight man finding Barbara Attractive, no reason to declare your possible insanity over it.
     
  15. Phillip Culley

    Phillip Culley Captain Captain

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    It was a one-off for The Beginning - the guy in charge of the DVDs (who took over about a year later) wasn't a fan of reconstructions; much preferring the alternative of animations (as seen on The Invasion and the forthcoming Reign of Terror DVDs). There was a 45-ish minute reconstruction of Galaxy 4 planned for the Time Meddler DVD, however this was unfortunately removed at the last minute and now languishes on a shelf somewhere.

    If the soundtracks didn't exist, we would still have the camera scripts or similar materials - there's little chance of something like that coming out of left-field :)
     
  16. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It wasn't that condensed. I mean the full audio is still there, the video is just a clip show.

    Well he would have to mime it then, because the full audio tracks aren't lost.

    I just realized I don't actually have any of the lost episodes besides Marco Polo and The Crusades. A lot of them seem to be on Youtube though so I'll get them there.

    Edge of Destruction I really liked for as short as it was. It was pretty creepy for one, and I thought it was cool to have a whole story take place in the Tardis.
     
  17. The Lensman

    The Lensman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Finished "Keys Of Marinus".....tomorrow "The Aztecs" begins.

    One thing that has changed, is my opinion of Susan. As I was building my Doctor Who collection, I was buying from different eras and watching them non-sequentially. And I had no real issues with Susan, I really liked her since she was the Doctors grand daughter. However watching them in order, Susan really grates on me. Not the actress, the portrayal.


    It's the constant freak outs and near break downs that get on my nerves. I can understand being frightened but she freaks out and too often has to be held by another character. I always liked Vickie, and now I realize she's closer to how Susan *should've* been portrayed. She was smart, and came off as someone beyond our time. Sure, the occasional screamy stuff....but no where near the freak outs that Susan has.

    IIRC, wasn't this the reason that Carol Ann Ford left?
     
  18. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was thinking she does overact a lot of the time. :lol: So far it's only been in The Sensorites that she seems to be anything more than an Earth child. At first I thought maybe she was adopted.

    On a side note, I was looking through a list of episodes and came across The Sontaran Experiment which I recognized as something I'd seen on TV when I must have been five or so. I guess it must have been the first episode of Doctor Who I'd ever seen, and I had no idea what it was. I can't wait to get there in my watchthrough.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Aztecs is my Favorite Historical, and one of my Favorite of all the Hartnell Stories, I hope you enjoy it.

    Regarding Susan, yea, her problem was that she was written as a 10 or 12 year old, and Carole Anne Ford didn't look a day under 16, and could've played up to 25 convincingly. This is one thing the Cushing Movies fixed, they actually had Susan played by an appropriately aged actress.. Additionally, being a Time Traveler, who had obviously travelled with the Doctor, prior to settling down in 1963 on (Since Earth 1960s was her favorite place, she must have other adventures to compare it to) Susan should've been better acclimated, and not such a mess, even the most scared Companions grow and become more acclimated over time. Susan is fine in the Doctor Who Unbound Audios and in the Five Doctors (And in her last story, when she all of a sudden grew up), the problem was with writing her as a 10 or 12 year most of the time, but, being played by Carole Anne Ford, IMHO.
     
  20. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah Carol Ann Ford was in her early 20s when she left the series, I think she was just tired of playing a teenager.
     

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