Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Ro_Laren, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There has been at least one case. And due to the lawsuit, they will not triage, but transport. It's not right.



    Total agreement here, except that its both conservatives and liberals who should be working to address this, so that the money that IS spent, is spent right. "Right" as in "not wasted."
     
  2. SonOfMogh

    SonOfMogh Commander Red Shirt

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    Reading this thread reminds me that America is fucked up.
     
  3. Darth Duck

    Darth Duck Commodore Commodore

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    I weep for America.
     
  4. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell so far this is a dumb future Premium Member

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    I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

    If there are x ambulances available, and they have x+y calls within a short span of time, then they are going to have to delay picking up y individuals, or refer them to another hospital's ER, where the same calculation will have to be made.

    That they do not appear to have had to make such a choice thus far just shows there is currently some slack in the system, which is actually a good sign, considering how ERs tend to be overloaded. Now, if we cover more and more people, there should be less ER traffic, because ERs are often used by people who are uninsured so they can get care. Such care is often expensive and complicated and could have been handled in a much cheaper and more orderly fashion by the patient's assigned GP.

    In other words, this "abuse" you cite of ambulance services should actually diminish under Obamacare.
     
  5. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can see this from both sides, both as the provider who tries her damndest to explain why this emergency really isn't and from the point of view of a caregiver who is at the end of her rope.

    Parents of chronically ill children don't get weekends off. They are on the job 24/7. A caregiver lives in a state of chronic anxiety & exhaustion & that can addle your brain after awhile.

    Been there. I wasn't always the nicest when a provider was patiently explaining his position to me, either. I'm sure there are notations in my sweetie's charts saying, "Spoke with girlfriend. She's a bitch."
     
  6. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ideally, sure. But once a health care system is in place, I don't think it's unfair to ask that the minority that opposed it to take a lead in fine-tuning it to the maximum benefit of all.

    And now that the Dems finally have a supermajority in CA's legislature, there's bigger fish to fry than occasional misuses of the system by certain folks (and again, I definitely think the police should aggressively prosecute blatantly fraudulent ambulance requests). I'd rather they focus on restoring economic justice to the state budget than interfering with poor moms who want the right baby formula for their infants. ;)
     
  7. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See? I'm an idealist! Co-workers called me and Hubby pessimists when we gave our opinions about upcoming "all-hands" meetings, and we were nicknamed "Gloom" and "Doom." We told them that we were not "pessimists" but "disappointed idealists," wanting the best possible outcome from the facts at hand, but never expecting it, based on past experiences.
     
  8. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
     
  9. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And yet other countries always ask us to do the world's dirty work.

    America's system may not be perfect, but much of the civilized world has copied it. I joined the fight to provide healthcare to everyone. In America, people can band together to accomplish great things... even if it takes awhile to get it done.
     
  10. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The success of universal health care systems in Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands for one?
     
  11. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not understanding what you're talking about. As has been pointed out, there were 60 Democratic leaning votes in the Senate, but there were NEVER 60 Democratic supporters of single payer health care. I will remind you that folks like Joe Liberman, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln etc were part of that 60 and they fought tooth and nail against even the modest proposals of the President. Add to that the fact that Joe Liberman was on some sort of vendetta against liberal Democrats because they primaried him out of the party and nearly cost him his seat. In fact, Liberman actually proposed a modest adjustment to Medicare that would have added millions of people to the rolls and could have been a back door to single payer. Liberals actually liked his proposal and came out in support of it as a good compromise. Upon learning that the liberal wing LOVED the idea Liberman promptly scuttled it and refused to support his own proposal. He did it out of spite.

    There was so much going on with the whole health care debate that people have forgotten that there was no consensus position on anything. The democrats were getting into fights with members of their own party/caucus.

    The Blue Dogs and Liberman killed the more liberal ideas in the legislation and thus forced the republicans to run even further to the Right just to find something to disagree with.
     
  12. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've heard conservatives spew this bile before. The thing that they love to gloss over is that their little scenario HAPPENS RIGHT NOW!

    The difference between rationing in a government run system vs a private system is that the government will ration resources based on NEED. Private systems ration care based on the ability to pay. So in countries with UHC, EVERYONE gets adequate care even if most people don't get the luxury care that you find in the US. In the US some people get first class medicine of the future...other people get nothing.

    It seems to me that if you accept that medical care is a scarce resource...which conservatives universally agree on...then it seems reasonable that the best way to divvy up those resources would be to ensure that the people most in need get first crack at care. Instead what we have is a situation where people with the most money move to the front of the line and consume as much of the resources as they afford. Those with nothing get next to nothing. Even those with insurance can be denied coverage by insurance adjusters and in the worst case scenarios can be dropped entirely.

    How is the current system better than one based on need?
     
  13. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Well, besides all that...what have the Romans ever done for us?
     
  14. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As has been proven so often, preventive care saves many, many dollars over emergency care.

    Only emergency care cannot be refused -- and by then it's hugely expensive, and often too late.

    Universal coverage works well for the rest of the world, and at far lower cost with far greater success. In what way are Americans so special that we must refuse even the idea of it?

    The insurance industry essentially has a license to print money. I've worked in medical software. You cannot believe the obscene waste -- all paid for by someone's health premiums. It disgusts me.
     
  15. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

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    You and your irrefutable evidence. :p
     
  16. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    California imposes an affirmative duty to act with tort liability and waives sovereign immunity? That seems a bit odd. I know California tort law is more willing to impose duties to act, but it still seems they can make legitimate decisions of where to allocate their resources if they don't have any to spare.

    Actually, that's not true. They had 59 votes, but they never had 60 able to vote (the timing of Franking and Kennedy being key here). And that suggests people like Sen. Machin (who I think voted against the ACA) would have voted for a single-payer option.
     
  17. DanCPA

    DanCPA Admiral Admiral

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    I wish I could reply, but this isn't TNZ :D
     
  18. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Private ambulance company, contracted with the city or county (can't remember which), who got sued and is now gunshy of turning anyone down. Cya to an extreme. Can't blame the ambulance company. I blame the abusers of the system, and the lack of protection for the ambulance company. It's understandable, though, because a protective law can be abused by by an unscrupulous company, just as the lack of law is abused by the "patients." A no-win situation as long as someone is willing to say "fuck you I want what I want"--and those people will always be around.
     
  19. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    It still strikes me as dumb and could be remedied in a better way.

    Any idea how the lawsuit ended up?
     
  20. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So this systems place no restrictions what-so-ever on health care? There's not a single treatment, medication, or procedure that is ever denied? For anyone? Because that's what I was asking about.