Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by Beyerstein, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    It's common for many people to say "my opinion is the majority, therefore it must be right." As if numbers somehow validates the right choice. On a matter that's an opinion to start with, thereby subjective and subject to individual taste. Funny thing is the numbers don't even matter. Everyone always has the silent majority on their side in these debates.
     
  2. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    Yes. I'm sure there are people who object to the reboot, but they don't speak for all of us. What I'm objecting to the insistence that "the fans" or "the real fans" or "the true fans" or "most fans" are united in their opinion.

    In my experience, this usually translates to "me and all the people who agree with me" . . . .

    Contrary to myth, there is no huge fan backlash.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I could have sworn I saw them blow up Death Stars in both A New Hope and Return of the Jedi. But I'm getting old and the memory tends to play tricks. Maybe you can correct my memory?
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Numbers always matter, especially when it comes to studios spending a hundred-million plus dollars on a product.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Thanks Dad USAF 1947-1972
    Why would it have to be more than 100 fans to make the news? It made the news because it was a good sound byte.

    Most? Based on what? People you've talked to? Even polls on this site show that the reboot is popular.
     
  6. Captain_Q

    Captain_Q Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Location:
    221 B Baker Street
    In response to all of the Star Trek being super violent stuff. I really don't consider Star Trek as violent compared to today's TV shows. There wasn't blood and guts spraying everywhere with viewers looking into the dead person's opened bloody chest. I've never had to close to my eyes and put my fingers in my ears while watching Star Trek because Khan was cracking someone's head like an egg. That sound bothered me so freaking much. Here is something I found that basically describes my exact feelings about Star Trek (with TNG in mind since I grew up with it and new Trek doesn't feel like this):
    "In the media, Star Trek has always been portrayed as a sad and confusing show for nerds, but for me, Star Trek has always been about hope. Hope that someday things like racism, sexism, war and poverty will no longer exist. I watch TNG because the world it portrays is infinitely better than the one in which we currently reside."

    Now there are many things in Star Trek that I would not like to live with. And now there will be fifty million posts about how racist and sexist Star Trek actually is. So have at it and basically ruin everything Star Trek is with arguing, that pretty much takes all the joy away from it. And that's what Star Trek is to a lot of people. Joy. I turn into a five year old happy child when I watch Star Trek and I don't give a crap about every single minute detail. Moffet didn't write it!
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Way to take a snippet out of a longer post out of context.
     
  8. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    The problem is that they bark louder than the fans here, so Paramount and maybe Abram will hear their voice more than from the invisible fans in here.

    To tell the truth, Star Trek's survival as a franchise is in danger nowadays So a failed single Star Trek Movie in the market will cause Paramount to move on and forget it. Yet there are still hardcore fans who want to kill this franchise in the name of "Prime Dimension". But well, maybe they right, Star Trek as a franchise should die, so we all can move on and return to reality again.
     
  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Then by all means, list all the things that are lifted from other movies or episodes.

    First, could you please learn to use the quote function properly so the name of the person you are replying to appears with the link to the original post ? It's very difficult to spot posts replying to me, the way you're doing it.

    Second, you're the one who is making a positive claim. Proving a negative is almost impossible, which is why the burden of proof in court is on the prosecution, same in science where it's on the person trying to overthrow existing theories, etc.. I am challenging you to support your claim.

    I think you are confused. Mentioning an element isn't the same as lifting it from previous things. Otherwise the third episode of TOS would've ripped off the second pilot because Spock and Kirk were in it, too.


    No, I don't get the point. None of that qualifies. Here's the original claim:

    This poster said that it used the same story, presumably as Star Trek II. Same story. Not same characters or the SAME UNIVERSE. Of course Section 31 can be there: they're part of the Star Trek universe. DS9 used them more than once, does that mean the second episode in whichi they did was the same story as the first ? That makes no sense.

    You guys are going to have to do better than just list individual elements. We are talking about "the same story".
     
  10. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Why not ? That scene takes up about five minutes of a two hour movie, so it's reasonable to ask why those five minutes suddenly make the whole movie a rip-off. You are dodging the question.
     
  11. Kirk the Jerk

    Kirk the Jerk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Location:
    Nottingham
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  12. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012

    Of course the numbers validates!

    The film studios, the companies and individuals will only invest their money into a film or TV series providing there is an actual sizable audience out there. The market needs to be sufficient so that their is a strong chance for financial return from ticket sales, merchandising and sponsors.

    An audience of a few hundred people who can quote every line of Homefront of WYLB is of no interest.
     
  13. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.
    My post wasn't in regards to the original claim. It was to your statement that "Into Darkness has almost NONE of the story of any other Trek movie" and smart move just stating "None of that qualifies" instead of saying how it doesn't. I would love for you to explain how what I posted doesn't count as lifting from previous stories. I'll re-post it just encase you forgot where it was.

     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    If you're going to hold the Abrams films to a certain standard, isn't it fair to hold all of Star Trek to that same standard?
     
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    I made a polite request of you and you now resort to snark ? That's very telling. I don't necessarily read every post in a thread, so if your post isn't marked as answering me, I might miss it.

    Well that sure expands the meaning of your post, then. Still, aside from individual characters, minor plot points and a single scene from the movie, I don't see how one could argue that Into Darkness or the 2009 movie lifted much from any previous installment.

    That's not true. I made specific exceptions qualifying my nothing.
     
  16. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    I didn't think it was necessary, since none of those elements you cited are stories. Having a character in a movie that was on the show previously isn't lifting a story from a previous show. I don't see how any of the elements on your list qualifies.
     
  17. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.
    You're absolutely right. Aside from all the stuff they lifted no one can argue they lifted anything. :techman:

    The relationship between the Federation and the Klingons is a story. NuTrek could of easily made the Klingons already an ally, or have them not use TOS' Klingon language (used in previous stories), or created a whole new alien race. I also stated more than character references. My post covered locations, factions, attire, and abilities but I'll save you the effort and remove Spock's mind melding abilities since it was used in the first movie (I won't count that as "any other Trek movie").
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  18. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Pay attention, and stop trying to score silly points in a game only you are playing: STORY. Individual characters and elements are not STORY.

    That would've sent the fans into an even more hysterical outrage, as the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point, and I don't see how they'd explain it using Nero's arrival.
     
  19. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.
    I was paying attention.
    You say elements isn't a story yet "the Klingons were NOT allies of the federation at that point". Where did you find that information if not from a previous non-nutrek story? Nero's appearance, an advanced Romulan, able to destroy planets unopposed could get the Klingons to join starfleet. I won't even count that partially deleted scene involving the Klingons (when Prime Spock mind-melds with Kirk that shot of Nero was suppose to be a deceiving plot within the Klingon empire) as a entry point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  20. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.