Do fans want the prime timeline back?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by Beyerstein, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Can't say I've ever heard of or thought of Spock as having a disability because he was raised for the most part in the Vulcan tradition.
     
  2. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Yet your use of the term "keys" suggests you may have been one of those fans who chose to deliberately misinterpret a remark made by Seth MacFarlane two years ago. I'll hold to my ridiculous prediction that, in the unlikely event of live action tv, whoever gets those keys will answer to logic and profitability first and artistic prerogative second.




    Which makes you demographically undesirable. But Mr. Moonves would like you to know it's not personal. It's just business.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Um, wrong.

    I couldn't care less about what Seth MacFarlane or anyone else said (especially since I don't even know what MacFarlane said anyway--and don't even want to know, really). So you're way off the mark there.

    Um, whoever will get those keys will do so because they were CBS' choice and had a pitch for a series that appealed to them. That pitch could be set in any continuity, including the original, the current, or an all-new one.
     
  4. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    How does that answer my question ?

    Again. I give two choices, and you answer "yes". :confused:
     
  5. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Just because no normal Vulcans were present, that doesn't change Vulcan custom.

    You're missing a very important point. Kirk was the Captain. If he decided it was okay for him to kiss a lieutenant on his bridge, it was okay because it's his ship.

    Tom and B'Elanna weren't Captains, or anything close. It was Janeway who got to decide if they could engage in public displays of affection, and she decided they couldn't.
     
  6. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Spock has never been one to follow Vulcan "custom".His story in TMP is pretty much about the pure Vulcan way not being for him.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I never saw Spock's Vulcanness as a disability. That's an interesting take.
    I think we see Spock's character very differently.
    Whether he was capable of love is open to interpretation. I'll never find the link now, but years ago I read a quote from Gene Roddenberry, where he specualted that Spock may have had a romantic affair at Starfleet Academy which ended badly. It immediately came to mind when I saw that Spock and Uhura were together in the 2009 movie, although I have no idea if the writers were even aware of Roddenberry's comment.

    In the 80's novel Vulcan's Glory, set when Spock is first assigned to Pike's Enterprise and written by D.C. Fontana, Spock has a rather casual affair with a Vulcan officer. He's portrayed as having emotions but keeping them hidden them as per Vulcan standards. This is quite similar to the Spock of the new movies.

    Conversely, in the more recent (2010) Inception by S.D. Perry, set between "The Cage" and TOS, Spock is portrayed as being literally unable to return Leila Kolrami's affections. He's portrayed as being incapable of a full range of emotions, owing to his Vulcan upbringing. A lot like the Spock you describe.

    Which version of Spock is the "real" one? I guess each to their own. I believe that Zach Quinto's Spock is a legitamate interpretation of Leonard Nimoy's original, although I can see your frustration that it differs from how you envisioned him.
    But it's not Uhura that "cures" him at all. This is something I posted in the Spock/Uhura thread over in XI+, about Spock's story arc in STXI:

    This may sound a little weird, but here goes: I say Spock's story in STXI is an allegory for a closeted homosexual coming out. He has emotions, which his people see as extremely distasteful. He can't supress them as well as they do, but he TRIES to live up to his rigid society's expectations of emotionlessness. He acts like he doesn't have them in public.

    Uhura, she's his secret release for his emotions. Their relationship is an improper and secret student-teacher one, surrogate for a secret gay one.

    After his mother died and his world destroyed, Spock cracks, and "comes out" to his father (Amanda always knew, and didn't care, "whatever you do, you will always have a proud mother"), saying this is it, he can't bottle this shit up anymore, he has emotions and that's that. And Sarek says not to try, and that he's proud of him.

    Spock and Uhura smooch on the transporter pad in front of everyone, Spock uses Uhura's "secret" first name. He's out now, being what he really is and wants to be, and not what his society expects.


    ...that's what me, a straight guy, saw. Am I the only one?


    There was a moment at the end of XI, when both Spocks were talking and the elder said to the younger, "Put aside logic. Do what feels right." - I thought it was HUGE. Spock's been through so much termoil over the decades trying to reconcile his human and Vulcan halves and trying to live the like a Vulcan, and here he is telling his past self that maybe the path he chose wasn't the best way.

    Is the young Spock "cured"? Nope. He tried not feeling in Into Darkness because emotion = pain and people important to him kept dying. That ended in an Incredible Hulk rampage.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The NuTrek Vulcans contradict themselves, completely forgetting about IDIC.

    In the Prime Universe I never got the impression the Spock was shunned (although in his birth scene in TFF Sarek does comment on his being so human, but seeing as how that is just a crap film I think we can gloss over it).
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I guess you missed "Journey to Babel", "Amok Time", "Yesteryear" and the entirety of Star Trek: Enterprise?

    Name one full-blooded Vulcan that exemplifies IDIC. Even Sarek shunned his own son for eighteen years. Why? For daring to explore a little of that infinite diversity rather than stay on Vulcan.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    People seem pissed that Abrams didn't take eighty-hours to get to that point in what is likely a trilogy of films that will have a total runtime of six-hours! :lol:
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Huh?

    All you have to do is watch Amok Time and Yesteryear to know that what you state simply isn't true.
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tuvok. He might have been annoyed when the likes of Neelix and the EMH poked him about being so logical, but he accepted and advocated diversity.
     
  13. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    Yep this is one of the very key issues with JJ bashing. A couple of movies can never quite explore 200 years of Trek lore aswell as 40 years of TV shows can.
     
  14. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My fear is now that they got away with re-using characters and lifting lots of dialogue/situations from previous Trek, and people are spending the money to see it, they'll keep doing that. Apparently a lot of people really love that. I find it extremely corny. No amount of special effects, suspenseful music or action can make Spock shouting "Khannnnn" anything but eye-roll-worthy for me (and all of the other dialogue lifted from TWOK falls into that category for me). A little goes a long way. A quote here or there, fine. Perhaps even cool. But they went totally overboard with it. They milked it dry and continued suckling for good measure. The thing is, I don't mind many aspects of the re-boot. The actors are great. The special effects are incredible. And even though I enjoy joking about it, I liked the lens flares! But the main thing is I just want a great story, and I think STID was almost there. I'd just rather see it without SO many "nods" to previous Trek. But that's just me, and I realize I'm in the minority and everyone loves/hates different things, and yada yada yada, so I'm bracing myself for another over-the-top quote-fest in the third installment. :sigh:

    But to answer the OP - I'm fine with either timeline as long as it's good! :techman:
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Touché.
     
  16. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :vulcan:

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVdH1GomPTk[/yt]

    Sorry, I couldn't resist! :rommie:
     
  17. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't bash JJ because he didn't include 40 years of back story.

    I bash him cause his stuff is shit.
     
  18. ComicGuy89

    ComicGuy89 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Bashing in any form is to be frowned upon. We could discuss the topic at hand to help come to a mutual understanding instead.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  19. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Okay. My main problem with new timeline is the guy who created it, because most things he's had a hand in utterly fail to entertain me. (The exception is Super 8, and only because the horror film the kids made was more enjoyable than the bulk of Abrams' repertoire.)
     
  20. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    In your opinion. And you have yet to really contribute anything to back up the repeated vulgar torrent of verbal 'runs' you've had over the topic for 4 and a half obsessive years.