Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by bbjeg, Sep 6, 2013.
I commend JJ for including Spock Prime. He didn't have to include him in it.
But that was a band-aid done years after "Endgame" and isn't canon to begin with. When "Endgame" was written, there was no thought given to the Time Cops. They were ignored in the episode just like they were ignored in Star Trek(2009).
The "prime" timeline ("primeline" ?) was never taken away.
You still have the six TV series on DVD and mostly on Blu-Ray. All are available in their entirety on Netflix streaming, as are the majority of the films (I think TMP and TUC are the only ones not on streaming at the moment.)
If that's not enough, the writers of the novels have continued to churn out book after book since 2009, set in -- wait for it -- in the "prime" timeline.
What's more, fan film after fan film is being produced and released at an increasingly quickened pace, all of which are set in the legen--wait for it, I hope you aren't lactose intolerant because the next word is --dary "prime timeline. What's more, these fan films (well, some of them anyway) are actually quite good.
So I refute this stupid insistence that two films have suddenly eliminated or prevented any more of the "prime" timeline. Anyone who watched the 2009 film and paid attention can easily see that the filmmakers went out of their way and bent over backwards to preserve the damn "prime" timeline. We're just not focusing on it right now.
But no DVDs have been recalled. No Blu-Rays are listed on moratirium in the Paramount vaults. No books have been discontinued and this massive library of 726 episodes and 12 films have NOT been retired from availability.
You can't have the "prime" timeline "back" because it was never taken away from you.
There was no way of knowing what the result would be when Nero attacked Spock. Remember, Spock was trying to prevent a super nova, not go back in time. What happened with Nero and Spock happened so fast there was no way to prevent what occured.
Except TNG and DS9 were already likely going to introduce new characters seeing as some of the mains left in their last onscreen adventures.
They don't get to ignore the onscreen stuff just becuase some fans are afraid of change.
That's what some people want to see, but not all fans and certainly not the majority of viewers.
We shouldn't necessarily assume that tens of millions of TV viewers are desperately waiting to find out what happened to the Federation after Nemesis . . . .
I think it's pretty clear that the question is framed as whether one wants to see new movies/TV in the old continuity (Vulcan intact, Romulus destroyed).
I don't think anybody is saying anything was erased or taken away from them.
I'm a pretty hardcore fan that watched every episode up until Enterprise was cancelled, and I think I can firmly say that even I don't give a shit about what happens to a fictional government after a fictional movie. If people like me don't care, then I don't know why anyone else would. However, that's not to say I wouldn't watch it if it happened (it probably won't). I voted in this poll that I don't care, just give me Trek, and that's the Star Trek whore that I am.
The warp speed supernova that would destroy the whole galaxy, you mean? Oy Gewalt! Everytime I am reminded of that mind numbing plot idea my brain rattles. But maybe Genesis and Trilithium warheads are crazy wank too. That's not an excuse though.
As far as I am concerned the Spock that came back to the 23rd Century was from the same different timeline that the new movies are in. As a result we could just ignore the movie events altogether.
I certainly hope that whoever takes over Trek after JJ does exactly that.
That's because other franchises do complete and total reboots all the time. That's expected of those franchises.
Star Trek doesn't do that historically. Yes, things are ignored and left out, and there are errors, I'm certainly not denying that. But as a series of works, there is a sense of some (dare I use the "c" word) continuity overall.
From TOS, through the original movies, TNG to VOY, it's obvious the writers worked toward creating a timeline (and alternate timelines within the same "universe"). Otherwise, in TMP they would have totally started over with a new cast of characters, or in TNG they would have used a completely new Kirk & company with no regard for what came before or ignored previous versions of the Enterprise before it, and in DS9 they would have completely avoided any history of what came before that, etc. But they didn't do that. Because Star Trek is not like other franchises. I'm not whining, but I am saying that the way they handle continuity is unique compared to other franchises. Even in JJ's version they did indeed go out of their way to include the prime timeline to suggest the new crew is in an alternate timeline - in the same fictional universe.
I'm not saying Star Trek can't totally reboot (because, yeah, I have so much control over that). I'm just saying so far they haven't really done so. And I'm personally pleased with that and hope that continues because I think that's a cool part of Star Trek as a franchise. I'm not saying it's the only thing that matters, and I'm not saying it's the most important thing. I'm just saying it's cool.
As far as timelines go, I would be thrilled if they went back to the prime timeline for official television series or movies at some point. But if they stay in the current timeline, sprout another one off, or completely reboot, if the story is good enough I'm game. Not that my approval is needed or anything.
They could even decide to do Vulcan intact AND Romulus intact, and just decide that none of the events of Trek '09 occurred in Trek Prime.
yes, I can totally see them ignoring two very sucessful movies to appease the minority of fans that hate change
I am not sure that the success of any movie is based on the status of Romulus.
I still don't believe there even is a "prime" Trek.
Berman-Trek is, like Abrams-Trek, a derivative of its source material, based on Star Trek, largely created by other people. It is no more or less "prime" than any other derivative version of Star Trek. The fact that Berman-Trek takes as its conceit that the events of the original ST series happened in its past makes it no less a derivative work than Abram's Trek or, for that matter, any of the novels. The various versions of Trek have never been one cohesive whole, no matter how many fans pretend otherwise and no matter how many books Okuda writes.
As I've often said, there's a new universe in every other episode of TOS.
The novels are "canon" for me, at least until proven otherwise. The Trek universe is a much more interesting place with the novels expanding on the movies and tv serieses imo.
What is "canon" is a matter for CBS televison. While the novels are licensed, they are not on the list of things that CBS has declared as "canon."
The line of Trek bobble heads across from me are also licensed, but just like the novels they are not canon.
Hope that helps.
My Spock bobble-head is definitely canon! He's cool beans!
Then why do you think Nimoy's character was labeled Spock Prime in the new movies? It wasn't because fans told them to do it.
Separate names with a comma.