Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by bbjeg, Sep 6, 2013.

?

Do fans want the prime timeline back?

  1. I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back.

    56.0%
  2. I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back.

    16.4%
  3. I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back.

    11.1%
  4. I don't care, just give me Trek!

    14.6%
  5. I don't know.

    1.9%
  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    I never got the huge love for the Cage at all... it seemed average at best compared to the rest of TOS, though maybe it's interesting to some to wonder how things might've been.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    I think The Cage is improved by being a part of The Menagerie.

    As to the OP question, do I want the prime timeline back? No, it was beaten to death, sometime during the run of DS9, VOY, ENT, GEN, FC, INS, and NEM. Really, the prime timeline was showing signs of emotional distress during the latter seasons of TNG, but there were acute warning signs as early as the first season of TNG, as well as in TFF. I will always love the prime timeline, but I think it's best that she rest in peace. Else, brains.
     
  3. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Sounds about right.

    Agreed with GoRe Star, I think a lot of the fondness for "The Cage" really just comes of its being the pilot ep... I've never really been that into it.
     
  4. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    It's my favourite TOS-era episode, actually.
     
  5. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I wouldn't mind the Prime Timeline coming back on Television - provided that the show be given the Battlestar Galactica reboot treatment. I would love to see a Girl J. T. Kirk and girl Spock and all that ... set in the universe we otherwise know and love. Having said that, I think J.J. Abrams was the right man for the right job, as far as the movies are concerned. Nicely done ...
     
  6. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    The original timeline has been done. Time for a change. (D'you see what I did there?)
     
  7. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I don't believe a "prime" timeline even exists. I take "prime timeline" to mean "timeline created for the Rick Berman-produced Star Trek spinoffs," which were derivative works created by (mostly) other people based on Star Trek, but no more "prime" than any other work derived from the original Star Trek.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    There is quite a difference between the Berman-era Trek universe and the TOS one. In TOS, Kirk met androids and shapeshifters, journeyed to the edge and the centre of the galaxy and kicked a ton of ass along the way. Then, in BermanTrek, the only android known is Data (+family) and the only shapeshifters are the Changelings (because apparently "The Dauphin" and "Aquiel" didn't really happen, or someone would have told Odo that he's not alone in "The Emissary":p)

    It's confusing, and I think fair to say that there's nothing they can do to please everybody.
     
  9. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Neither of those episodes seem to provide a likely candidate for being 'like Odo'. Species that are able to (usually in limited ways) change form are old hat in Star Trek, but that doesn't make any of them 'Changelings' in the same way that Odo is. The only serious possibility I can think of is Marta from TUC, whose actual form was never shown. So, even assuming anyone knew specifically about any particular incident, why would they tell Odo about creatures that probably had nothing to do with him or his people anyway?
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    If you were a reptilian race and had seen a handful of mammal species over the years and you found a new mammal species that had never been seen before wouldn't you, when talking about his uniqueness to him, reference the other mammals you knew of who shared similar qualities?
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    Absolutely.

    Continuity porn is of course one of the creeping problems that TNG+ Trek suffered from, but at the same time, blatantly ignoring old continuity was also a problem. Episodes such as TNG: Home Soil could have been resolved so much easier, if only the characters had watched TOS: The Devil in the Dark. This dilemma, of whether to ignore or to bow to old continuity, put all the later series in a lose/lose position.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    Remember that at the time when Gene Roddenberry et. al were creating Star Trek, the written science fiction genre was undergoing a change. The '60s was a time when there was a trend toward publishing whole novels or anthologies in paperback form, instead of in the pulp magazines. However, it wasn't yet so prevalent that Roddenberry would have been that familiar with anything but the pulp magazines (and of course SF wasn't the only genre that had its own magazines - crime and western stories had theirs too).

    This is most of the reason I can't stand nuBSG. The pointless sex changes for some of the characters made it seem as though all the producers wanted was the character names as a hook to get the original BSG fans to tune in, and otherwise they'd make up any damn thing whether it had to do with the original characters or not.

    If they did that to Star Trek... well, it would pretty much be like the fanfic that already explored this concept over 30 years ago.
     
  13. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Well, nuBSG was a straight-up no-bones-about-it reboot. They weren't trying to set it in the original continuity or sell themselves as an alternate universe thereof. So they were actually quite free to make up any damn thing whether it had to do with the original characters or not.

    It can admittedly seem cheap to just plaster the old names on completely different characters, but I wouldn't accuse nuBSG of doing so or of gender-switching purely for its own sake. Most of the decisions they made added considerable dramatic depth to the characters and interesting complications and tensions to relationships that were straightforward and really quite bland in the original product; gender-switched Starbuck was (albeit a bit too heavy on the angst at times) a million times more dramatically interesting than the original article. Gender-switching purely as a form of cheesy fanwank would be awful, of course, but it can be done in more interesting ways, and for my money nuBSG is one of the best examples of that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    A couple of things.

    1. The fact that oldBSG fans stomped off in a huff didn't hurt either the ratings or critical reception of nuBSG in the slightest.

    2. Changing the gender of characters such as Starbuck and Boomer didn't hurt nuBSG in the slightest.

    • In the case of Boomer, a new character (actually, many new characters) were created to occupy the spot of an original character, who basically had no character at all.
    • In the case of Starbuck, making her female gave added dimension to her relationship with all of the Adamas, from Zak, to Bill, to Lee.
    Getting back oldTrek vs. nuTrek, Uhura's character has only benefited from having greater dimension and definition. The Prime Universe was played out and stale. At least nuTrek is trying new things, and a careful analysis shows that they generally aren't really random new things at all. And, similarly to the situation with oldBSG, the fact that certain fans of oldTrek aren't satisfied isn't really hurting nuTrek, either at the box office or in the overall critical reception.
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Also this, yes.
     
  16. Maxillius

    Maxillius Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    I voted for no, keep the nu timeline going. And here's why:

    The timeline as I see it goes right along happily until First Contact. That trip back in time by the Borg and Picard's crew screwed the timeline in the direction of Enterprise. Ever wonder why the Vulcans kept holding the humans back in relation to technology? Forget the horsesh-t about "not being ready", its that the Vulcans knew about the bits of Borg in the Arctic circle and wanted to make sure we could handle that kind of threat instead of allowing us to send spindly little speed machines into the great unknown. Anyway, since the timeline was already messed up by First Contact, ST09 didn't *actually* reboot anything. *THE REBOOT WAS ENTERPRISE*. Yes, the Narada's arrival messed things up too, but at that point, the alternate timeline was already 172 years old, so calling it an alternate alternate is pointless when we don't know how the NX-01 would have altered things before the Narada arrived.

    On that note, notice how Kirk's crew was so much better at resetting the timeline BY SHEER LUCK than Picard's crew was when they actually tried to set things straight?
     
  17. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    And some of us old-timers are perfectly fine with the new Trek doing things differently. Trek was never meant to be some sacred cow that can only be approached in a strict, fundamentalist fashion. Ditto for BSG.
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    It's an interesting theory, but not one I buy. Seven referred to First Contact's events in Relativity so she had knowledge. That alone connects First Contact to the rest of the "prime" universe and with Enterprise being they sent the signal out.
     
  19. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    With great minds.
    ^Plus Enterprise's last (and sad excuse for a last) episode.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Ouch! Now that has me wishing Enterprise -was- an alternate timeline! ;)