Disney's Frozen - Grading and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by CaptainCanada, Nov 30, 2013.

?

Your grade?

  1. A+

    28 vote(s)
    36.4%
  2. A

    22 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. A-

    4 vote(s)
    5.2%
  4. B+

    3 vote(s)
    3.9%
  5. B

    9 vote(s)
    11.7%
  6. B-

    4 vote(s)
    5.2%
  7. C+

    2 vote(s)
    2.6%
  8. C

    4 vote(s)
    5.2%
  9. C-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  1. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I'm a "grown man" and not afraid to admit that the "Let It Go" song/sequence chokes me up a bit. I've seen it twice with my daughter (and maybe that's why the song strikes a chord with me), but I wouldn't hesitate to see it by myself, either.
     
  2. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    For me... "The First Time in Forever" reprise gets me. Couldn't say why. "Let It Go" sounds like a song of defiance.
     
  3. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is. Defiance. Rebellion. Embracing of oneself despite expectations of family and society. It's brilliant, really. Such emotions. And the way Idina Menzel sings it ... it's powerful.
     
  4. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks There's a- a peck here with an acorn pointed at me Premium Member

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    Ok, here is my 5 year old son singing Let it Go. All he wanted was a Karaoke machine for Christmas, so that he could sing with a mic. Took this video on Christmas, to show the person who got it for him. He chose to sing Let it Go.

    This is the short version, so you don't have to sit through the whole song. All choreography is his own.
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALt_pbjU6W8[/yt]
     
  5. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm 29 and I choked up a couple of times, especially during "Let it Go".
     
  6. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think, in some ways, we've all experienced having to hide parts of who we are because of social conventions. Admitting them to ourselves, accepting them, reveling in the power of being who we were meant to be ... it's a profoundly emotional experience. That's what the song conveys. So it's no wonder that it's an emotional experience.

    @ Tom Hendricks ... that's precious ... and awesome!

    Having something like that on video is ... priceless.
     
  7. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    According to my friend, Frozen is an allegory for transgendered people accepting their "true" gender. The Ice Princess accepts her true gender in spite of society while the snowman represents someone conforming to societal pressure.
     
  8. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    I think we all see what we want to see. Elsa is like all of us who have been outcasts at one point or another.
     
  9. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    I saw it more as a gay/coming out metaphor - I mean, Elsa almost literally spends part of the movie "in the closet" - but the transgender reading works, too, of course. (although I don't see how Olaf would play into that)

     
  10. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it certainly can be a metaphor for the struggle many in the LGBT community go through. And I think it works very well - very powerfully - as that. And for all I know that was the intent. It makes sense that there would be an awareness by the filmmakers that it would be interpreted that way (are there any interviews with the writers/director that touch on the subject?). But I agree with Peach Wookie that Elsa's self-discovery and self-acceptance is more universal and can apply to anyone who has felt as though they've had to hide their true self for fear of being an outcast. Heck, it works even on the level of a child going through adolescence and rebelling against the wishes and expectations of parents. I think that's to the credit of the film, too - it becomes this mirror for the audience, allowing many different people to identify with Elsa's conflicts - internal and external.
     
  11. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    I've seen this twice now, once with my brother in a packed theatre, the second time in 3D on my own in a near empty room. Oddly I felt a little underwhelmed right after both times but then felt more excited the more I thought and read about the film.

    It's most obviously a metaphor for mental illness itself (Co-Director Jennifer Lee answered a tweet saying it was meant to show anxiety and depression*) but yes, a lot of the appeal of Elsa is that most everyone can relate to her in one way or another. Gender Identity, adolescence, religious persecution, etc. I even saw someone list dozens more examples on Tumblr but comically they then deliberately ignored sexuality.

    The sad thing about 'Let it Go' though is that a lot of it isn't about accepting her powers but locking herself back up in a new room, emphasized when she closes the ice palace doors at the end of the song.

    * Jennifer Lee has actually answered quite a few tweets about Frozen, worth checking out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
  12. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    Elsa definitely came across as having mental issues. That whole reprise of "The First Time in Forever" came out that way, I thought. She didn't want to hurt Anna and was trying to keep her away so she wouldn't. Anna wanted to help and was accidentally hurt.
     
  13. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since when are anxiety and depression necessarily signs of mental illness? I daresay many people go through both without being mentally ill. :p

    Besides, Jennifer Lee's tweet seems to indicate that while anxiety and depression were intentional, mental illness is not explicit.

    So again, mental illness is another way Elsa's journey can be interpreted ... but not explicitly so.

    Agreed. There's also the reprise of "For The First Time" where Elsa mentions "Oh I'm such a fool, I can't be free! / No escape from the storm inside of me!". That's part of the story - accepting herself isn't enough ... re-integrating with society, or rather using her abilities for the benefit of everyone, and not just herself, is where her power truly lies.
     
  14. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Since Anxiety and Depression are classified mental illnesses? Lee even brings up Hans Christian Anderson as an example. But sure, they can refer to emotions too, and it is just a metaphor since, you know, Ice powers.
     
  15. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ My point was that anxiety and depression aren't, necessarily (or absolutely), signs of mental illness. One can be both depressed and experience anxiety without being mentally ill. And, for the record, Lee, wasn't the one to bring up Hans Christian Anderson, it was part of the tweets she was replying to:

    As Lee says, it was intentional to show anxiety and depression, but not necessarily mental illness - at least as far as "HCA" is concerned. In other words, they were depicted "more for the story" than for an explicit connection to mental illness. So, yes, like the struggles of the LGBT community, Frozen could absolutely be a metaphor for mental illness. But it's not necessarily, nor explicitly so, since anxiety and depression are part of many challenging moments in life and do not always denote a mental illness (or do you mean to suggest that the anxiety and depression felt by someone struggling to come "out of the closet" is a sign that they have a mental illness?). Again, the metaphor is bigger than any single issue.
     
  16. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, you're right about how 'HCA' came up, it's difficult to follow the way people tweet some times. I would differ on the interpretation of Lee's reply, since she says "Not necessarily for HCA" as opposed to "Not necessarily mental illness", especially since as you've pointed out, the person Lee is responding to is specifically addressing (her and HCA's) mental illness but it's open to different POVs.

    And I agree, as I said in the above post!

    Yep. :)

    :vulcan: I'd be a fool to think that one immediately follows the other. However, I'd also be a fool to think that someone coping with a situation as unfairly stressful as that can be could never be susceptible either, just as with any number of triggers.

    Yes, absolutely! If you look back and read what wrote, I've never said otherwise.

    What do people think of Anna and Elsa's parents? Good parents who made mistakes trying to protect their children? Bad parents who basically locked them up?
     
  17. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I saw this at a preview screening at ILM in 3D a while back.

    I thought Olaf was one of the best comic sidekicks ever because he was genuinely sweet and naive and selfless and not just a smart ass or dumb assed buffoon.

    I'm surprised no one mentioned what I thought was the most significant twist in the film, that
    the "act of love" wasn't romantic love, but sisterly love. I always applaud it when the protagonists solve their own problems, especially in animated films where too often the sidekicks do all the work.
     
  18. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Yeah, the act of "true love" was certainly atypical for animated films - particularly for the expectation of Disney animation (given its long a storied tradition of conveying "true love" and "happily ever afters"). Like many other elements of this movie, it played on audience expectations and subverted them - in this case, twice over ...
    first with Hans and then with Kristoff.
     
  19. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    That was probably what put the movie over the top for me.

    There were times during the film where I was like here comes the traditional disney troupe, and they did subvert it twice. There was a theme of Family loyalty all throughout the film that I really admired, and for a Disney film, a company known for the Prince and Princess Magic, to hit on that to end the film was just really awesome.
     
  20. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3776&p=.htm

    Frozen seems likely to reach $1 billion dollars. It will end up almost tied with Toy Story 3. That's just incredible. It's great to see this movie get the reception that it deserves. Unless it bombs in China or Japan, but that seems highly unlikely.