Director's cuts in blu-ray?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by mythme, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    DNR is the bain of film restoration. I don't want my grain taken away completely, the grain is what gives film it's texture! By all means if they want to take some it away, fine, but I think too many blu ray releases have been overzealous in their attempts to scrub the picture clean. :(

    And that's the other thing. Too many movie studios have done this, doing a proper rescan of only one or maybe only a small handful of movies in an overall series, and then releasing the others quickly after only doing the absolute minimum of work on them. Which usually means just taking an existing master, applying too much DNR to it, and then pushing it out the door for the sake of being able to get all the movies in a single boxset by a predetermined release date.

    Frankly, I'd rather they take their time and do everything properly. But hey-ho.
     
  2. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It makes sense that KHAN would be the one to get the best treatment given how the process is expensive. As you said, only reserved for a small number of movies, usually the classics. RoboCop will get 4K restoration, but none of the sequels ever will. That doesn't mean the other films couldn't have gotten an impressive transfer without a 4K restoration, as the latter James Bond and Indiana Jones films showed. It's just a shame Paramount went with the more cheaper approach by applying the DNR and calling it a day.
     
  3. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Blu-Ray version looks like they reduced the oversaturated red of the original, but reduced too much of it, so now it looks like it has a blue filter attached.

    Personally I like things looking properly color balanced, BUT the biggest thing is to get better resolution.

    What else should we expect from Paramount. They think everything Trek before JJ Abrams is for dying old nerds. Maybe they blame declining ratings of DS9 and VOY, and ENT was the nail on the coffin.

    Exactly. A little grain is necessary to keep the illusion of a sharper picture. Too much DNR is blurring the image and defeating the purpose of even having a movie on BD.
     
  4. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Unquestionably, a couple of scenes have been radically and just plain altered - as in the cap of the Regula Planetoid at the head of this thread. However, most of the film merely appears to have the blooming reds of antecedent home video releases toned down a little - as you say.

    I honestly don't see any evidence of a particular blue push across the vast majority of the transfer.
     
  5. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    The question is though: was the original over-saturated red as a deliberate artistic decision?

    If so, then it should've been retained.

    Especially as the Blu Ray release is supposed to be the theatrical edition.

    So, have we ever gotten any explanations for why the color balance was altered for the Blu Ray in the first place? Was it a choice made during the rescanning, or was it an accidental artefact of the restoration? Did they scan the negatives at 4k and simply transcribe the color tones 'as shot'? :confused:
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Great question. That exact thing happened in the Conan (1982) Blu-ray.

    There is an early scene that was shot during the middle of the day where Conan is being chased by a pack of wolves. In post-production they darkened it so it would seem to be just before dawn and imply he was being chased all night.

    When they restored the elements they didn't know or realize this and transferred it as a day shot. So now he be being chased at high noon by the dogs and the original intent was lost.
     
  7. trekker670

    trekker670 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't get how mistakes like this happen. You'd think a requirement for remastering/transferring a film would be watching the original.

    Look at some of the behind the scene from TNG-HD, you almost always see an editor with both the newly scanned film and the original tapes for comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  8. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Well, it hasn't been established it's a mistake at all. As I mentioned above, a couple of scenes have been radically altered, but the majority of the transfer really isn't massively different. Based on that, I would intuit deliberate intent.

    I would guess a call was made to reduce some of the glowing reds which do manifest in previous video releases, and are slightly OTT IMHO.

    As for the other very specific changes, who knows?
     
  9. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The release of the six original movies was just a hasty attempt to cash in on the release of the Abrams movie.

    According to Digitalbits' Bill Hunt Paramount didn't even realize they didn't have the Director's cuts ready for release on Blu-ray. They only had time to properly restore 1 of the 6 movies and picked TWOK. They were in a big hurry and probably overlooked or didn't care to check on what the proper color timing is for the movie.

    Trekcore has dozens of comparison shots from the DVD vs. the Blu-ray.
    The color is off thru-out the movie--not just for a few shots.
    It just so happens that it is more glaringly obvious in those Regula shots.

    They also didn't have time to (or didn't care to) compile deleted scenes for 2, 3,4 and 6. All they could manage was another set of commentaries for the movies.

    It's laughable when listening to the new commentary for TWOK to hear Meyer pause mid-sentence when he realizes that he is not watching his Director's cut and mumble, "why are they showing this version?"---to paraphrase
    WTF? The guy who supposedly was overseeing the restoration didn't even know what version he was being shown?

    It was a quick cynical lazy attempt to re-sell a product that they had sold many, many times before without doing any pre-planning or giving it much thought.

    They probably figured, "We'll sell them a more deluxe version again in the future."---

    EXCEPT that is dependent on the bean counters telling them that the additional work will be cost effective in terms of reselling the product to the same group for the umpteenth time.

    I very much doubt it will be. By now, 4 years later most fans have broken down and bought the movies for as little as $5.

    Besides a few diehards like some in this thread--there just isn't a huge market for another dip.

    As for 2016 as the last best hope of getting the Director's cuts/deluxe non DNRed versions---that depends on what they have in mind to sell us in 2016.

    They may launch a new series, they may announce DS9 on Blu-ray, they may release the Animated series on Blu-ray, they may re-release the the first two Abrams movies in a deluxe set, etc.

    Yes, it's probably the last, best hope, but it's not a sure bet by any means.
     
  10. trekker670

    trekker670 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry all, I was responding to Gant's mention of Conan. I added the quote for clarity.
     
  11. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Well, each to their own. I maintain the TWOK BD is a decent product, and certainly not some kind of quick cash grab. I guess we all see things differently, so what's "off throughout" to some is simply a small change for the better to others.

    Agree to disagree I guess. :)
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Vintage review of the Trek Blu-rays......

    Scroll down and check out the abomination that is the color for TWOK on the Khan comparison shot.

    http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/21/review-star-trek-original-motion-picture-collection-on-blu-ray/


    If someone prefers that....then there is no help for them IMO.

    I want a true representation of the color and ALL the versions of all the movies and deleted scenes would be nice.

    Day one purchase for me---------what ever the price is. Otherwise real happy with my DVDs of the Director's cuts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2014
  13. Borjis

    Borjis Commodore Commodore

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    Will?

    It came out months ago. looks great!


    I just don't see Paramount doing any restoration or changes to any of the Trek movies
    until they do 4K versions....who knows when that will happen, but I would
    think they would eventually.
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree. When the time comes they will do bare-bones 4K transfers which will be for streaming, NOT for a 4K disc format and even if that did happen years from now---they would probably still only include the theatrical with no deleted scenes.

    So yay, maybe someday years from now when we are being fed another format we may get the correct color timing!!!!
     
  15. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Doubtful. Maybe a better transfer someday with accurate colors and no DNR , but not 4k. TWOK was the only film worthy of such treatment.
     
  16. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Here's another TWOK BD review from the well respected Hi Def Digest site...

    http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2460/startrek2_wok.html

    "In other respects, the disc has satisfyingly deep colors. Some viewers have pointed out that the color balance leans more toward blue than any previous video transfer. I'm not prepared to comment on which is more accurate to the original photography. Taken on its own, the Blu-ray doesn't look incorrect. Contrasts generally look good, though the transfer is a little dark overall. Some of the model shots of the starships seem perhaps a bit washed out, at least in comparison to the first movie, but that may simply be a difference in the way their respective effects houses shot them"

    I find it incredulous posters are referred to as needing "help" simply because they hold a different opinion to others. It's arrogant, rude and unnecessary. Can't we keep this cordial?
     
  17. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Anything to say about Director's cuts?

    What's the title of this thread?

    I want to see Director's cuts. I've been watching the TWOK extended cut since it aired on ABC-TV in 1985. Was thrilled when it came to DVD.

    Now I want that cut for Blu-ray---really all 3 cuts ABC, Theatrical and Director's via branching.

    Thoughts on that happening?
     
  18. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Yes, I posted my thoughts on a possible director's cut release in post #11.

    Grant, I just don't understand why you're getting so worked up. I've really tried my best to keep this friendly. Please, just chill out - it's only a difference of opinion! :)

    I'll be right there with you should the BD's get the re-releases you've described. :techman:
     
  19. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just remembered.............

    any revisiting of the movies on Blu-ray should fix the horrible and bewildering "windowboxing" of the credits in Search For Spock.

    Why they felt it necessary to switch the aspect ratio from 2:35 to 2:00 is beyond me.

    It has been suggested that that did this incredible foul-up because someone was afraid that "Dame Judith Anderson" wouldn't fit on some sets.

    So for the ENTIRE credits section the credits are displayed with black bars on the sides.

    For god's sake their were so many easy and cheap ways to have prevented her name from being cut off besides altering the aspect ratio for 3+ full minutes!

    Quick, lazy, inept release all around.

    Also check out how they turned up the brightness so much in the scene from TFF---that the "God" figure is not visible! WTF? Was it complete amateur hour or let your kids play with the controls day at the office?

    http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/21/review-star-trek-original-motion-picture-collection-on-blu-ray/
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I actually prefer the theatrical cuts of most of the Trek films, including TWoK. As far as the Blu-ray color being wrong goes: the only scene I notice it in is when the Enterprise is leaving Regula One.

    I can definitely get behind this. :techman: