Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by The Overlord, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TNG ended in DS9 season 3 when Voyager stared. Logically they had All that unspentTNG money to throw around that year to get Voyager off to a healthy start, the following year is when DS9 would have got it's cash injections when they could afford Worf, and maybe they could have afforded Worf in season 3 but just didn't think that they needed a full time new cast member stylistically at that point.

    I say logically becuase I just pulled this out of my ass.

    But TNG would have cost a lot more to make than Voyager, simply becuase it was using models and it's actors had been getting raises for 7 years, ergo the difference in cost between the price of TNG and the price of Voyager went to DS9.
     
  2. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I doubt Jeri would have gotten any more money than Jennifer at that point--she wasn't well-known.
     
  3. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    Great poem, teacake.

    I feel that it got 'better' but Kes was never a problem character. I've always been very critical of Voyager as in my mind, it was never as good as I'd hoped when it started... however when I did get back into it (season 7 finale) and then rewatched the whole thing, I felt Seven came along at the right time to shake things up.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, just on par with Mulgrew and Picardo who certainly got paid more than Kes. An elf in the back ground with four lines about how the Doctor is too a real person, compared to characters that were mostly expected to be responsible for half of most any given script.

    I really wish we knew how much these people were paid, how is it still a secret?

    But Wang and Lien possibly got paid maybe 10 grand an episode less than Mulgrew, because "Janeway" is expected to be a more dominating character.
     
  5. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I liked Kim. Even though he was underdeveloped, he was used to balance out the more insane characters. He was the straight man for Paris, Seven and B'elana, and the most identifiably human character. But if not him, why Lien? Why not Beltran or Phillips?
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Beltran is a minority, he's made entirely of wood, and sacking Ethan would have ruined their complete denial about how awful every facet of Neelix truely was.

    If Lien had had surprised the Bees with a tasteful "spread" in Maxim or FHM (Both Roxanne and Jeri have been in at least one of these publications half naked.) as they were sharpening the axe for her neck, I wonder if that would have saved her job?
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In Maxim as what, the cute kindergarten teacher gets naughty for the lads?

    This is not working in my head.
     
  8. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because Michael Dorn's salary was paid by the props department.
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Is that suppose to be some kind of joke?
     
  10. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it was a joke.
     
  11. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I almost believed you for a moment.:lol:
     
  12. Jaro Stun

    Jaro Stun Captain Captain

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    Better
    When i feel nostalgic i watch s2-3 though
     
  13. Transphasic

    Transphasic Cadet Newbie

    It got better, yes. but not because Kes left. Kes suffered along with Chakotay, Kim and Paris as not being developed by the writing staff. Although personally, Kes was not an interesting character to me. How many psychic characters does a franchise need? They could have, however, done something along the lines of her gaining incredible power and having to adjust to being around those who didn't have the same abilities. She easily could have been distanced from the crew, like 7, and needed Janeway's help to reconnect to those around her. Of course she wasn't the eye-candy hottie that 7 was, so why do it. Besides, Borg are cool. The issue isn't did 7 replace Kes, it's that the stories got better after season 3. Not Kes's fault.
     
  14. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I agree but I do think Harry/Tom had more ongoing potential than Kes/EMH. Tom and Harry were great opposites that brought a certain balance to each character. I think by s5, the EMH wasn't going to need Kes' guidance anymore because he was already on his way to being fully independent by the end of s3. I don't really see where they had developed a strong enough bond with Kes' interaction with others as they did Harry. Harry had more interaction and stronger relationships with Tuvok, B'Elanna & Janeway than Kes ever did. Plus I don't see any other character on Voyager being as believably affected by survivor guilt as Harry was in "Timeless".
     
  15. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Harry was the sidekick. Too bad Tom wasn't more of the Bad Boy, would have enhanced the sidekick quite a bit.
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think it depends on how you view a "bad boy".
    Had Voyager been a social non-military based show, Tom wasn't bad boy enough. I agree. However, Tom was insubordinate in just the fact that her talked back to Janeway and always spoke out of term. By military standards Tom is a bad boy. Tom would have NEVER been allowed to serve on the Enterprise and Sisko would have punched him in his mouth every other show. :lol:
     
  17. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But he could have been the Bad Boy in his private time. In his private friendships and private relationships. He could have been a Curzon (lothario), a Starbuck (crazy), a Garibaldi (believable past addiction). Instead we get a pleasant fellow who gets a bit mouthy now and then by strict military standards. Vanilla.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If he was that bad, then would Janeway still have gotten the ok to get him released from prison? It was the "Great Santini". Tom was only a bad boy cause he had a over bearing military minded father. He was never good enough in his fathers eyes, so he was bad because he gave up trying.
     
  19. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Those bad boy examples (with certain exceptions in Starbuck's case) are all personal flaws or character traits.

    Would they have released Tom if he'd screwed his way across half a quadrant like Curzon? Sure.

    Would they have released Tom if he'd been an alcoholic but was now sober? Sure.

    Would they have released Tom if he was an erratic nutjob like Starbuck? Possibly, if he'd kept that to his personal life and showed a lot of line toeing when it came to authority.

    Any of those would have made the Bad Boy label believable.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tom was a bad boy because he joined the Maquis.

    Which would be exceptional on any other ship other than Voyager which was 25 percent Maquis who had been around longer than a week before they got pinched in a raid, then rolled over on the cause.

    Sounds like a punk to me.