Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by The Overlord, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Mea culpa.

    (which sounds like the name of an actress)
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Oh well, he may well have been making that comparison.. I just assumed that the revered and potentially pretentious band went with DS9 and the cheesy band went with Voyager.

    Neelix is like a Saturday morning television character of that era.
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    I did think Guy's comparison was oddly reversed. The last-minute replacement of a key member was the only analogy I could find in that sense.
     
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    That's right but he left The Beatles before that. Pete Best was kicked out in a not so nice way which the remaining members of The Beatles actually admitted some years later.

    Since Bujold actually left before Voyager did take off, it's more appropriate to compare her with Stu Sutcliffe even if the situations aren't similar at all.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    There is no real nice way to kick someone out.

    Oh.. unless you give them a huge sum of money as they leave.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Worst Neelix Halloween mask I've ever seen.

    [​IMG]

    Reminds me more of Vernon Wells as Wez in Mad Max 2/The Road Warrior.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    It's also possible that I might have meant the monkey's from the beginning of 2001 and not the Monkees.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    But-- but these are more fun.

    (embedding disabled, use YouTube button)

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQQ8cBHb0fg[/yt]
     
  9. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    9th level of Hell
    While DS9 (my favorite Trek series without question) did arc based story telling, its not the type of arc based story telling that I am talking about I should have said serial story telling.

    Having events run Most of DS9 arc story telling was in either multi part story telling or picking up ideas and events from other episodes and building an episode around that. Modern Dramas were incorporating serial arc based story telling. Where events from one episode were deeply connected to parts of the very next episode. Voyage did this with the "spy" story line that was developed running through several episodes.

    It wasn't until later in DS9 run that they really started doing this. Though they did do arc based story telling, just of a different kind.

    Also just to point out that DS9 due to Piller and then Piller's hand picked replacement did take more risks. Though unlike Voyager (where DS9 did manage writing, and characterization about 5 times better then Voyager), it didn't push the visual aspect as much (and I don't mean a darker color palette or great CGI, just in how drama's are staged, cut, and filmed). For his weaknesses, Braga was out of those running any of the writing room, the best visual writer for Trek (and its why I wish that Ron and Braga could have continued together through their Trek run).

    But it wasn't until Braga and Berman's 3rd season of Enterprise that Trek really tried a full season based serial story telling. Nearly a decade after Piller started that push to more modern story telling. And tv dramas were doing it probably 15 plus years earlier.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Berman and Braga were hopelessly depressed by the lack of success on Enterprise.

    They turned off their brains in season three, letting the little people go mad with power, then they were on holiday for season 4 when they handed everything over to Manny Coto.

    This is why paramount stopped making Star Trek to wait out Berman's contract, because they couldn't extract him from Star trek if he had on ongoing or in development projects.

    And now what do we have? A new movie every 5 or 6 years?

    Berman was making shit, but at least he was making a lot of it.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    And now someone will ask, would you rather have 100 episodes of regular shit or 10 episodes of awesome quality.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    But sometimes you can get some really good shit.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Not to mention that there's a lot of hilarity in repetition, tropes out the wazoo etc..
     
  14. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    I plan on watching Voyager and counting how many times they employ the 'reset button'/restorration the status quo and how many shuttle crafts get totaled in Voyager.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    10 episodes a year?

    I wish.

    What we're getting, those movies convert into about 5 or 6 episodes a decade is you don't count the adds attached your 40 minutes of programming.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    What we have works out to 18.6 episodes a year from the first episode to the last one. That's more than Dr. Who gives us.
     
  17. Alpha Flyer

    Alpha Flyer Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    Off the Shoulder of Orion
    I always thought Tom Paris had a real arc; he does some serious growing up between seasons 1, 2, 5 and 6/7.

    Kes had a couple of spots that could have been an arc, but were never connected.

    7/9 had two arcs, both well ... enhanced and supported.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Neelix had an arc from manipulative jerk to smooth talking man of patter.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Arc?

    That would require co-ordination between writers.
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Hotel Transylvania
    What was Harry Kim's arc?