Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by The Overlord, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. USS Kongo

    USS Kongo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I really liked Kes, and missed her a great deal, but Voyager was still watchable for me after she left. I thought Seven Of Nine had her charms, as well.

    Sean
     
  2. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seven is my favorite character ever but I don't know if I'd say it was she who made Voyager better. Voyager had started to get better at the end of season 3 when the writing suddenly improved drastically after the disaster that was "Favorite Son". The writers were pulling their sh*t together before they the Kes-Seven switch, Seven's coming on just happened to coincide with it. Nonetheless, I don't know if I'd have enjoyed Voyager as much without Seven. But I know for sure that I would have enjoyed Voyager even more if Kes had been kept on in addition to Seven joining. Voyager had a chance to really do something a bit new if they jettisoned a male cast member and kept Kes - have a much more female-centric show than the others for reasons beyond simply the captain being female. Voyager had chances to do a lot of things which it didn't unfortunately.
     
  3. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't get why people trash Favorite Son. I thought it was a good sci fi story.
     
  4. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I've found many of the eps. folks trash here are loved on other sites and even on FB.
     
  5. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The point is that what we saw in "Before And After" may never have occurred even if Kes had stayed on the show. Kes's development may have taken an entirely different path. There were hints for a prolonged lifespan and a more important role on the ship.
    And why should she stay on Ocampa when she wanted to learn and explore? In that case, the rest of the crew could have stayed on Earth or DS9. They could have done the same things there as they did on Voyager.
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't understand it either. It's a good episode. Not the best Voyager episode but still a good one. Not to mention that Kim gets some action too.
     
  7. Surak of Vulcan

    Surak of Vulcan Ensign Red Shirt

    Well, Voyager (In my opinion) was never good in the first place. But, after Kes left and Seven of Nine took over, the show became focused on three characters: Janeway, The Doctor, and Seven. So, depending on whether it got better or worse really depends on how much you like Janeway, The Doctor, and Seven's writing and performance.
     
  8. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You mean before they were going to suck him into a husk?
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That should be standard.

    Have sex with your cousin = Turn into a husk.
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But it was a whole bevy of nubile cousins so it's kind of a fair exchange.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I had a flatmate from Pakistan, a country where it is permissible to marry first cousins, and we're yelling at him for being a sick fuck for suggesting that a set of first cousins from "this" side of the world should hook up, the girl cousin is almost vomiting and the boy cousin was winding up to punch him, and I'm saying "Just shut up, you're wrong, go and have a piss before Adam decks you."

    It's a question of geography.
     
  12. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You can marry your first cousin in Australia.

    You can also legally marry your niece, nephew, uncle or aunt!

    But you cannot marry a sibling by adoption.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You understand that when they were writing the Australian Criminal Code, 200 years ago,that they must have got lazy or drunk, because why on earth should they erect laws against shit that no one would possibly do?

    Like us, and the rest of the colonies, your founders mostly cut and past from the British Criminal Code, but lets face it, that fuck is huge and mostly stupid and arcane.

    Cut and past in 1790 AD consists of yelling at hundreds of poor people with quills, and then yelling some more until they get it right.

    Scrooge treated Bob Cratchit like that for a reason.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I knew someone who was married to her half brother. Everyone assumed it was an immigration scam but then they had a baby. The kid had several of his fingers bifurcated at the top knuckle into two fingers.

    She refused to have this fixed because "it would be denying who he is".
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And if the surgery didn't cost 80 thousand dollars?
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's socialized medicine, it would have been free.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I assumed that since it was technically elective surgery that it wouldn't be covered by the government just like they don't cover boobjobs and tummy tucks.

    It's a weird line.

    But then finding a receptive charity wouldn't have been difficult.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kid could never type. Picture the top knuckle branching off into two top fingers with nails etc.. I think she was under pressure from social services to have it done, but she was a paranoid eastern bloc person who wasn't going to let it happen.
     
  19. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Getting back on topic...

    I really think the show was doing well during the Kes era, and then when Seven came on board the writer's just decided to let Voyager coast on it's own momentum and not put hat much effort into the show; the reason for all hose stupid Janeway/Seven episodes that just got boring.
     
  20. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Worse.

    We lost a sweet, innocent, caring character, who was seeing the wonders of the space for the first time, replace by a cold, distant and overly-aggressive one, whose journey back to being human was far too easy (on but she has massive boobs, so that makes it all better).

    Add to that all other characters were ignored and dumbed down in favour of Seven.