Did Vader ever fathom that Palpatine was Darth Sideous?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Guy Gardener, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jedi Knights are in short order who hunt Sith... But in the middle of that spectrum there must of been hundreds of thousands of untrained force users that didn't undertand who they were doing what they were doing or the consequences.
     
  2. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Given that there are likely plenty of corrupt politicians who aren't Sith, the idea that Palpatine was one really had to be confirmed before any action could be taken. As far as the Jedi knew, Dooku could have easily been lying to Obi-Wan about Palpatine in the hopes that the Jedi would arrest or take down someone who really wasn't a Sith and throw the Republic into chaos at a time when it needed to be stable the most.

    It was ironically Skywalker--Palpatine's BFF and the one least likely to say anything negative about him--that convinced Windu that maybe Dooku wasn't lying after all, but he still had to confirm it himself.
     
  3. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As Mace put it in the ROTS novelization, "The only reason Palpatine himself isn't a suspect is because he already rules the galaxy." And he had been for over a dozen years at that point. Given the history of previous Sith Lords (Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, Lord Kaan), they figured if Palpatine was a Sith, he would have lost patience/subtlety and tried to make a move to seize total control years ago. He was essentially FDR circa 1945 (minus the annoying cerebral hemorrage) at this point as far as the galaxy was concerned. What they were suspecting by the early part of ROTS was that Palpatine had been in office too long, gotten too used to the trappings of power, and was starting to look at ways to stay in power permanently while keeping the Jedi and Senate in check. IF there was a Darth Sidious around, he could be acting as Palpatine's Karl Rove/Valerie Jarrett.

    They didn't WANT to believe that a Sith Lord could have been running the Republic for years right under their noses. It was simply unthinkable.
     
  4. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Did they ever say anything on screen? I know Star Wars isn't like Star Trek, but, at the same time, I haven't read the novels so I'm wondering if there's anything I missed.

    You still get the impression that most people don't see Jedi all that often.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Even though the propaganda machine must have been spinning bullshit something fierce to justify the public executions and hunting of the Jedi. And you know what they say, any publicity is good publicity.
     
  6. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I think what you're asking here is for people in Kenya to have a working knowledge of what happened to the Washington branch of the Freemasons in the 1980's. Some details might get a little sketchy over time.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    they were the generals of the clone wars that ripped up every planet in the galaxy after they kept the peace for 10,000 years...

    Clones vs Droids.

    Like "real" people gave a shit.
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dooku didn't say anything about Palpatine, just that a Sith Lord was influencing the Senate. To see this as a reference to Palpatine is hindsight; the Jedi wouldn't be expected to take it that way.

    Well, they wouldn't; given the surely vast number of people in the galaxy, 10,000 would be a relatively tiny amount.

    We've all been there, haven't we?
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Dooku said that the Republic was under the control of the Sith. Well, if Palpatine was in control of the Republic, I think he would at least be a suspect if Obi-Wan took his words seriously.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Only when I open my eyes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's not the message Obi-Wan is going to take away from that conversation. This is not the point in the timeline where Palpatine is ready to reveal himself.

     
  12. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    That's not me you're quoting, but Set Harth.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Winston Churchill admits that Hitler is working for him and he is the secret leader of the Third Reich.

    George Bush Snr admits that he has an intimate relationship with Saddam Hussein who had been operating under his direct order for the 15 years leading up to his death.

    People who hated Palatine knew this, and he stayed in power, unless Yoda and Obi-Wan crawled into a bottle or started sucking on te spacehash pipe, got to busy to start up an imperial Wiki-leaks.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My eyes were shut.

    You were warned.

    (Fixed.)
     
  15. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Or they get dismissed as the equivalent of people saying that George Bush planned 9/11. Also, I'm not sure there's a Galactic version of the internet in this universe where information can travel that freely and anonymously.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well the Emperor was able to send communications to Vader from half a galaxy away in Empire.

    of course Military communications man be a snuff above commercial communications.

    Imperial Mail?

    In one of the "what if' mirror universe Star Wars comics that came early this century, where just changed something slight to make the movies really incredibly different... I think in one Luke died on the assault against the first Deathstar and Leia became Vader's Apprentice but the death star survived... And an Imperial news report was now calling it "The Justice Star".

    They must have a wealth media of media and news, whether it is true or fabricated to uplift the sentient condition.

    Was podracing really just George thinking that he could exploit NASCAR's unexplainable popularity?
     
  17. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    So why didn't Han believe in them? Especially with Chewy at his side?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Imagine if Chewey and Yoda had met in Empire?

    "DUUUDE!"

    "DUUUDE!"

    And then they high five.

    (Yoda might have to jump.)
     
  19. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, Han probably believes that the Jedi existed and were really good at using lightsabers, but he had no reason to believe they had special powers. I don't think Chewie saw Yoda do necessarily changed that.really good, but didn't know they had
     
  20. PsychoPere

    PsychoPere Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The HoloNet was pretty open under the Old Republic (and later would be again under the New Republic / Galactic Alliance), but large portions of it were taken offline after Palpatine took power as Emperor and what remained after that was strictly controlled.

    Also, perhaps Chewie never talked to Han about his experience in the Clone Wars. Chewie was already 200 years old by the time of Yavin, so that's a pretty lengthy lifespan of numerous possible stories.