Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Khan?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Khan 2.0, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In that (really very good) 3 parter the main villain is Malick - a genetically engineered superhuman like Khan, with an asian name but played by a white dude

    Anyway I rewatched the 3 parter recently since having seen STID and it got me thinking how now it all plays out as more a prequel to STID than Space Seed/TWOK - not just in terms of design, modern feel etc but of the fact that Khan is also played by a white blue eyed guy - that aspect of downplaying the Indian warlord angle (in Space Seed anyway) and emphasizing the genetically altered/artificially created angle.

    In STID Khan looks almost manufactured like a humanoid Data (kind of apt considering Soong featured in the Augment 3 parter) or even a slim Terminator (which he basically turned into when he went 'full Khan' at the end). it was more the nietzschean superman route
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    I'd say that the Augment trilogy works excellently and equally as a prequel to both Space Seed/Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness. Frankly, the race thing doesn't register with me since Khan's was obviously never a Sikh (Marla's identification of him as such, before she knew who or what he was makes no sense since he was clean shaven and had a waxed chest) and has noticably white skin in Wrath of Khan (they dropped the skin-darkening make up). Add to that his followers all turning Aryan in WoK and you have a VERY jumbled backstory indeed.

    Back on topic, the ENT Augment trilogy forshadows Khan's effortlessly whupping Kingons, and the healing of the little girl. In the exchange between Archer and Arik Soong in "Borderland"...


    SOONG: They're the future. They're stronger, smarter, free from sickness, with life spans twice as long as our own. You, more than anyone, should appreciate what this means.

    ARCHER: Why me?

    SOONG: Your father suffered from Clarke's Disease. His final years were marked with extreme pain.

    ARCHER: My father has nothing to do with this.

    SOONG: He didn't need to suffer. Genetic engineering could've cured him. Those who want to suppress my Augments are the same ones who condemned your father to death.

    http://www.chakoteya.net/enterprise/80.htm
     
  3. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Enterprise, in my view, didn't have a lot of strong points.

    The augment trilogy was probably one of it's strongest. The writing, the acting, the music, the action and suspense. It all works great. Not to mention it's ties to the past, and to the future (in Trek lore) are very natural and fitting.


    Though, now that you bring it up. It just makes me wish even more that Harrison had been one of the Cold Station augments that had been recovered by S-31 and stored back on Earth.
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    That could have been a neat little bit of trivia for us fans, but it probably would have carried too much continuity baggage for the uninitiated. Easier to just use Khan, who's at least a familiar name.
     
  5. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Going to have to rewatch the Augments episodes. Right now, I feel like making this connection is just reaching too far.
     
  6. Agenda

    Agenda Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    It would have made even more sense to forget previous continuity entirely and say the augments were newly developed. The fleet has just been decimated and Vulcan destroyed. Starfleet is at its weakest. What better time is there to institute a genetic engineering program from a purely militaristic point of view?
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    At least NuKhan didn't have those silly torn clothes. You'd think genetically enhanced people could figure out how to sew.
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    But they only had a year.
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Well...Sure, if you're gonna drag that old chestnut out ;) :guffaw:
     
  10. IronWaffle

    IronWaffle Ensign Red Shirt

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Says the Cardassian tailor!
     
  11. Agenda

    Agenda Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    So? Kirk made captain in about a day. Rushing things for the sake of plot doesn't seem to be one of JJ's problems.
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Making Kirk captain only takes a moment. How does one create a fully grown adult augment in a year?
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    With sufficiently advanced technology.
     
  14. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    Eh...

    You could even make it so that Marcus had restarted the program secretly due to the impeding war with the Klingon empire.

    "Augments? Impossible! They were all destroyed nearly a century ago. Research into genetic enhancement has been completely outlawed ever since." - McCoy

    And then Spock could do his Spock thing and explain how Marcus is a badass and would have access to that stuff. Or, even something as simple as having McCoy drop the bombshell that the super-human stuff is the result of Khan's genetic augmentation (After he takes the blood sample.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  15. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    thats an interesting - maybe even go one further and have Harrsion as an augmented superhuman that was created to do starfleets dirty work - born from a certain superhumans DNA/blood - big mystery until we find out its from Khan Noonian Singh (that couldve been the big reveal in the brig - Harrison saying something like 'My father is Khan!')

    so the plot wouldve involved Harrison searching for Khan (and his people) that Admiral Marcus has stored away in a secret Section 31/Area 51 type base (Marcus dared not awaken khan but used his DNA/blood to create a Bourne/Rambo like supersoldier he could control) - Harrison would battle everyone like in TNGs The Hunted until he finds them and wed finally see Khan at the end in a cryopod (CG 1967 Space Seed Montalban) - Khan would be like the McGuffin/Artifact driving the plot like in Indiana Jones

    would’ve made all kinds of sense with Cumberbatch looking/sounding nothing like Khan
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    I was very negative about the Khan route being pursued initially, but really is a true Catch-22. You make him Khan, you get complaints that you used Khan. You make him a Khan knockoff, you get complaints that you didn't use Khan.
     
  18. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    So many good ideas here, just why did the writers have to mess the story up the way they did! Seriously, they took their time with this movie, and all they could come up with was ... this?
     
  19. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    It's frankly partly the fault of the fans, who frequently trumpet Khan and TWOK as the best. You think the studio's not going to notice? People are just upset that they didn't get the Khan they pictured.
     
  20. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Did the ‘Enterprise’ Augment 3 parter contribute to Cumberbatch Kh

    what about if theyd had Khan (Montalban CG) revealed at the end? (with Harrison searching for him)

    Khan wouldve been like the Ark in Raiders or the alien at the end of Crystal Skull or the engineer in Prometheus. something mystical/mythical, frightening, too dangerous to awaken

    the whole film would be building toward the climax and the reveal...are they going to show Khan and if they do who will it be (some Latino guy like Del Toro or Barhem?) then whoa big surprise its the REAL Khan (CG 1967 Space Seed Montalban) who would either then be awakened by Harrison and Khan rampage finale like 'Arnie' in T4 or the engineer in Prometheus (as that would’ve been cool), or wed just see him in the cryo pod and thats all

    in fact i had hoped that would be a twist of the film anyway - he was lying he was khan (Joachim or a specially created supersoldier) and all along hed been trying to find the real Khan who was still in a freeze pod in some secret Section 31 base in San Fran and thats where he was trying to get to at the end - leading to him finally locating his master…

    i was still kind of expecting something like that right at the end when we see Cumberbatch in the cryo pod - the camera would pan across and wed see 1967 Montalban in the next pod (an in joke for the fans...non fans would just think BC was Khan)...then wed see the Botany Bay in the background