Did Picard make the right decision with the Son'a/Baku

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Godless Raven, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, why wouldn't they be willing to talk to someone who was kind of spying on them and was going to kidnap them in their sleep and was still planing to go through with it even after the plan was exposed? :rolleyes:

    Honestly it sounds like they just told them that if they wanted to be all technological and stuff here are the keys to the ship go have fun. Not to mention this was after the Son'a tried to take the place over.

    hell for all we know they were expecting them to either not care about the immortality aka the freaking trade off for the own interstellar empire, or to come back in a decade or two if they got bored with the whole thing.
     
  2. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's because they were being kicked out of their homes.

    I don't offer to help thieves steal my home, regardless of good intentions.

    I guess you've never owned a home, as you don't seem to appreciate what that means.

    If someone wanted to kick me out of my home, because it would help hondres, thousands or millions of people, it is still, in absolute FACT, THEFT.

    Until you can prove otherwise, the Baku have the poral hight ground.

    If the Federation and the Sona approached them and asked if they were willing to help, they might well have helped the Federation study and replicate the rings capabilities.

    But I guess property theft and tresspassing are okay for a theoretical greater good.
     
  3. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    er actually, if the government of the territory where you live wants to move you for some greater good, it's called "eminent domain," not theft.
     
  4. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except it wasn't a federation planet. If it was where was the Ba'ku's representation in the federation government. If anything the only group who might any have authority over the Ba'ku would be their original homeworld.
     
  5. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    So it is wrong for the Son'a to use force to remove the Ba'ku from their homes, but its okay for the Ba'ku to use force to remove the Son'a from the planet? The whole story is based on a bunch of plot holes, the Ba'ku were a bunch of tech hating pacifistic, how did the Son'a lose to them in the first place? Why didn't the Son'a just establish another colony on the planet after losing the Ba'ku? Frankly the Son'a being random evil alien invaders who were just selfish and wanted to be immortal would have made more sense then them being Ba'ku.
     
  6. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    You know the thing about planets they are quite big, the Son'a could have just moved to the otherside of the planet.
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Details like that would've required the writing staff to stop and think about the actions of their characters instead of hammering them into cliche roles.
     
  8. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    That is just another plot hole, why wouldn't Son'a do just that and establish another colony on the planet? The whole premise of the Son'a being Ba'ku doesn't make sense.
     
  9. Vasquez Rocks

    Vasquez Rocks Commodore Commodore

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    The Son'a didn't want to live on the planet or be anywhere near the Briar Patch. They wanted to be immortal, but not tied to the planet for that benefit.
     
  10. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Basically they wanted to have their cake and eat it too, instead of having to deal with the potential consequences of their choices.

    Maybe thats why the Ba'ku were surprised about who the Son'a were they probably thought their kids moved to a different part of the planet, and were just being bitter jerks about not talking to them any more.
     
  11. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Son'a gave up their right to live there by trying to take over.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder how much of the dispute over this movie emerges from genuine issues with the scenario and how much is due to flaws with the structure of the film itself (i.e. it fails to address points that should have been reasonably brought up).

    Whether or not the Son'a forfeited their right to live on the planet, by the time they returned they were a dying people. From that perspective, I feel a compassionate race could offer to let them inhabit some portion of the planet...especially a compassionate race consisting of 600 members.

    Not all that dissimilar from how Khan's people may have been reasonable if Khan hadn't been batshit crazy and obsessed with wreaking vengeance on Kirk at all costs.
     
  13. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They never asked, frankly. And at the end, there was a reconciliation with at least one Son'a.

    That, right there, tells me the Son'a exile was likely extended by Ruafu's stubbornness and greed, and they might well have been allowed to return and make amends.
     
  14. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    the premise was rather poorly thought out-possibly the most poorly thought out of all of the Trek movies.

    -A small village of non-technological pacifists somehow defeats a group of technology-embracing rebel militants. How? We don't know.
    -for some reason, the Son'a agree to go into exile. They build a respectable empire, but never return to conquer the Baku and retake the planet.
    -the central "dilemma" of the movie shouldn't exist-if the planet's legally a Federation planet, then the scenario's no different than "journey's end," and there's no reason for Picard to interfere. If it's NOT, then the Son'a were free to go in anytime to retake the planet themselves. Ru'afo didn't need the Federation at all.
    -Ru'afo decides to deceive Dougherty about the Baku, making the whole situation harder. Even after Picard and Dougherty both learn that the Baku aren't primitives, neither simply suggests negotiating with the Baku and explaining the situation.


    It's a stupid premise that falls apart when exposed to logic, and it's why the movie doesn't lend itself IMHO to a lot of re-watch value.
     
  15. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is one of the reaons I liked the original idea. Especially since the moral dilemma wasn't going to mean crap anyway. I mean does anyone really think the Federation was going to actually get their hands on the fountain of youth? That would be too much of a game changer for the people running trek at the time. Hell they weren't even allowed to keep Genesis for peat's sake and that time they didn't even need to worry about two spin offs that were running at the time.
     
  16. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I remember thinking that the original premise was good, but what was it again? Something about a rogue admiral down on the planet with the inhabitants or something?
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because the hundreds of billions of people the radiation would help didn't spy on them.

    Because the hundreds of billions of people the radiation would help didn't try to kidnap them.


    [​IMG]

     
  18. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The radiation for the planet was making them all act crazy.

    Riker shaving his beard.

    Beverly and Deanna talking about their boobs in public.

    Picard thinking he was in Die Hard movie.
     
  19. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It even effected Data... unless you think randomly shooting at ships, even when they identify themselves and try talking to you is revering to a pure state of ethics. :p
     
  20. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No just the people that would be doing any negotiating.

    Well thats what happens when crazy drug dealing illegal WMD using guys who are probably just stringing the federation along shoot androids built by eccentric guys stuff like this happens.
     

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