Destiny trilogy - speculations

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JoeZhang, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    But I think the problem that many of have, is that everything new has sucked :lol:

    Having said that, I do appreciate you and Mack take the time to chew the fat with us about those things and I have enjoyed your work previously, so I'll keep an open mind about what you plan to do with the current situation.
     
  2. gunslinger66

    gunslinger66 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    All I can say is,"I want these books NOW!" I can't wait for Greater Than The Sum and Destiny. For me, they are the Trek reads of the year. Granted, I too did not care for how the Borg were portrayed in Resistance or Before Dishonor but I attribute that to the writing not Borg overkill. I have great respect for J.M. Dillard and Peter David.They have been authors I have truly enjoyed (and I'm sure I will again) but , for whatever reason, I didn't care for the writing in these books. It seemed--I hate to say it-- sub-par. Especially when compared with the works of KRAD, Christopher Bennett and David Mack. And just to speculate what David Mack might do with the Borg... BRING IT ON!
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Actually we do. It was in his bio shown in IAMD. Archer dies (peacefully, AFAIK) in 2245, a day after the NCC-1701 is commissioned.
     
  4. Trent Roman

    Trent Roman Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    My opinion on this is that there is a good case that some of the post-BOBW Borg, including their early appearances in VOY, did make the Borg more frightening. Assimilation and enslavement are certainly scary concepts, but with Hugh and the others, we find out that the individual doesn't die during assimilation--in a way, that would be too merciful. Instead the individual is repressed, a prisoner in his/her/its' own mind, suffering the constant trauma of not only the imprisonment, but of watching him/her/itself act out the Collective's will, or becoming subsumed and become dependant on the Hive Mind, as Annika Hansen did. And the idea that individuals can come back--however scarred--from assimilation makes then all the more tragic to fight, because every Borg drone you kill is, in a way, a hostage, as much of a victim as anybody else. There is a potential future, a potential person, being snuffed out here--not a high likelyhood, granted, but ethically still a kind of enforced murder. I also thought it was interesting that, in their expansion into fluidic space, or quest for the Omega Particle, the Borg kept its threatening uniformity while shrugging off our usual associations of such society with stagnation and entropy: the Borg are not a dead-end, but are also moving forward, with goals of their own, which suddenly demands that we reconsider the Borg model of doing things beyond automatic dismissal. In particular, I think they failed to play up the idea of the Borg as an uncanny version of the Federation, where both are expansionary, Other-hungry group entities comitted to 'bettering themselves'; the Borg are both the antithesis of and eerily similar to the Federation.

    The Queen, I grant, was a problem. I wouldn't have minded a figurehead, since they'd already tried that with Locutus, and I also would have bought that the Queen's personality was a chimera designed to lure Data into the Collective, programmed from the gestalt memory of millions, with multiple copies as suit the local species. It's when it became undeniable that the Borg was ruled by an individual and not just a central hub that the concept seriously undermined the Borg's credibility. A blow which was repeated each time they were handily defeated by one little starship. The producers of VOY went a long way towards crafting a Borg culture... but instead of usign that structure as a potential weapon for our heroes, fell back on easy tech solutions or personality flaws, like an other villain.

    And as for the most recent instalments... as I've said before, far from making the Borg more frightening, they made the Borg appear dumb and silly; really, Resistance and Before Dishonour went as far to make the Borg less credible as a foe than VOY ever did. And that's a shaky foundation to build more Borg stories on. With any luck, these stories will feature actual Borg, the uncaring and unstoppable, and not the stupidity-plagued, revenge-driven examples we've seen of late.

    Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    We don't know that canonically, because that portion of the bio did not appear onscreen. It's only unofficial background material, subject to contradiction. For that matter, even the parts that were shown weren't really intended to be legible, and wouldn't have been if not for high-definition TV.

    For what it's worth... post-"Endgame," the Borg are fragmented. The Borg cube that attacked in Resistance and Before Dishonor was acting alone. That's why they had to create their own Queen. So what happened in those books wouldn't really be a foundation for stories about other Borg. (Well, the Borg in Greater Than the Sum are the last surviving offshoot of those Borg, but they're more the McGuffin for GTTS than the foundation of it.)
     
  6. Turbo

    Turbo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    So...it's about the journey, not the destination, right? Which is exactly how it should be.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Well... figuratively speaking, yes... but GTTS is actually very much about the destination in a somewhat more literal sense. You'll see...
     
  8. elaithin

    elaithin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    *shrug* Borg or no, I'll judge the books - GTTS and the Destiny Trilogy - when I read 'em. Given the writer's track records, I'm pretty sure I'll like 'em, too. Good enough for me.
     
  9. Turbo

    Turbo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Curse you and your cryptic hints!

    Is it August yet?
     
  10. William Leisner

    William Leisner Scribbler Rear Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    HERETIC!!
     
  11. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Personally, if I was the person making the creative choice, I would just stop using the Borg and drop the concept, because I don't find them particularly interesting on anything other than a monster-in-the-closet level, but that's just me. Your approach is valid, too -- but I don't even want a Borg that is anything other than a monster that wants to eat me, so there's a fundamental creative difference there.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Which may have been planted in the calendar on purpose, so a future novel could pick up the thread. Remember, Marco once had DS9 Relaunch characters dropped into a Wildstorm comic mini-series ("DS9: n-Vector"), and a novel duology ("TNG: Maximum Warp"), as a sort of preview of "Avatar".

    Of course, this is just my personal speculation.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    But somehow your speculations seem to be getting wilder and wilder lately. You're reading hidden motives and secret plans into everything that happens in the book line.

    The calendar images are created by Hollywood special-effects artists based on what they want to see. The only reason Pocket is able to do these calendars at all is because these busy, high-paid creators are willing and eager to participate, so they're given a lot of creative freedom to come up with whatever they want, rather than being given marching orders by the editors. If something comes along in a book that's based on an image in the calendars, it's far more realistic to conclude that the writer or editor was inspired by a really cool calendar image.

    Heck, I've certainly given some thought to figuring out ways to work a SotL image or two into my fiction. And it wouldn't be the first time that a story was inspired by a piece of artwork. There have been cases where magazine editors have commissioned authors to write stories based on pre-existing illustrations or paintings. (See DS9's "Far Beyond the Stars.")
     
  14. MichaelS

    MichaelS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    True. For example, this applies to Admiral Ross's background as described in The Future Begins. Ever since I saw that image of escape pods leaving their damaged ship in the calendar (2002?), I wanted to do something with it, and even went so far as to plot a story that was, in some way, tFB's predecessor.
     
  15. ronny

    ronny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    I tend to avoid posting, or reading for the most part, of these speculative posts but I just gotta say I vote for Sulu for this part. :)
     
  16. Reanok

    Reanok Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    I've been reading through this thread and have been wondering will Mission Gamma 4 book Lesser Evil tie into the Destiny storyline? I recall they found out the Borg had been in the Gamma Quadrant. Will this be mentioned in the book. Since Dax was on the Defiant when found the former starfleet ship had been assimilated by the borg had crashed on an unnamed planet.I'm also curious as to how the NXo2 Columbia ended up in the Gamma Quadrant.
     
  17. ronny

    ronny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    When did that happen?
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Well, I think it all depends on which way the superdelegates go...
     
  19. Turbo

    Turbo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    Only in a painting for one of the Ships of the Line calendars (can't remember the year), at least so far.
     
  20. Rat Boy

    Rat Boy Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Destiny trilogy - pretty heavy spoilers

    I wonder if the Columbia thing will tie in with Kobayashi Maru.