Destiny: Lost Souls by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by nx1701g, Nov 16, 2008.

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Grade Lost Souls

  1. Excellent

    72.1%
  2. Above Average

    19.1%
  3. Average

    7.1%
  4. Below Average

    0.5%
  5. Poor

    1.1%
  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I have a quick spoilery question, and I'm just looking for a general answer here, nothing to specific. Is the huge impact this has simply the amount of destruction the Borg cause, or is there something big that happens in the story, other than what's been mentioned here?
     
  2. ainmneacha_Nollag

    ainmneacha_Nollag Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Would I be right in thinking that my prediction several months ago that the entire Sol System would be destroyed was a bit off base?
     
  3. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I would say so, yes. That's not to say that other planets don't get fragged, because they do. Oh, do they ever.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Well, keep in mind that I already knew what Dave was doing in Destiny, so I had to do something different. Plus,
    the story required that the mission to infect the Borg be a suicide mission, otherwise Picard's willingness to undertake it wouldn't have had as much weight. So it was dramatically necessary that the Borg ship and the person sent to infect it not survive. But I did make a point of acknowledging the ethical dilemmas involved in violence against the Borg. And it was important to me that the real culmination of the climactic sequence not be the destruction of the Borg, but the rescue of the Rhea. The former was just a necessary evil; there was no way I was going to paint it as a triumph. So once it was done, I immediately moved on to what was really important, the work of saving lives.

    I will say that writing the combat scenes was a very unpleasant experience for me; I don't like getting into the heads of protagonists who are killing people. So it's not an experience I'm eager to repeat anytime soon. I think you'll find Over a Torrent Sea a sufficiently nonviolent reading experience.


    There are a number of major developments aside from destruction, both on a galactic and a personal level.
     
  5. casey

    casey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Ah, that explains. I lived in Florida for a while and it took forever to adjust when I came back here.

    I believe some of the ski resorts are open now if you are into skiing.

    Everyone is talking about how awesome the body worlds exhibit in Salt Lake is: http://www.bodyworlds.com/en.html, if you want to look at dead bodies.

    When I am in Salt Lake I always have to make a point of visiting The Bayou http://www.xmission.com/~bayou/home.php for live Jazz and great food.

    Then there is always hanging out in Park City. It is worth the trip to hit the restaurants and galleries on main street, not to mention that it is a beautiful setting. But very cold!

    And if you like football I believe today is the huge BYU/U of Utah game.

    Finally, you could always visit down town Salt Lake and see all of the historical things there.

    All of this assumes, of course, that you are on the Wasatch front.


    ANYHOW so that I don't get accused of derailing this topic, I will answer JD's question:
    I think it is a combination of the massive destruction and death--particularly for the main characters who have lost loved ones--and
    The end of the Borg collective as we know it.

    EDIT: And apparently I took too long typing this as Christopher beat me to JD's question. . .
     
  6. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I always find it cathartic to fictionally slaughter hordes of whoever.

    But then, I've worked in retail...
     
  7. ainmneacha_Nollag

    ainmneacha_Nollag Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Yes. Retail does do that to people!
     
  8. Ace Of Hearts

    Ace Of Hearts Cadet Newbie

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    First time poster, long time lurker. Hi all. Help a fellow fan out?

    I plan on buying Lost Souls. However, I have to wait three weeks until I get paid again to buy it. There is only one thing I really can't wait that long to know about it. I've had a favorite TNG character for quite some time, and all I want to know is what happens to her/with her in this book.

    Spoil me about Beverly, please?
     
  9. casey

    casey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    After she is assimilated she comes to an unfortunate end after Picard is forced the shoot her with a machine gun as in First Contact.

    Actually
    She comes out fine. As does her unborn baby. Other than that she didn't figure very heavily in the book, but the scenes with her were nice.

    Glad to see another person that really likes Beverly!
     
  10. Stephen!

    Stephen! Captain Captain

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    What was the reason for the change in the Borg, to go from assimilation to killing and mass murder of entire populations?
     
  11. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    They assimilated a Dalek
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    As explained in Greater Than the Sum, Voyager's destruction of the Borg transwarp hub elevated Starfleet/the UFP from "minor nuisance" to "serious threat." Essentially "Endgame" was the Borg's 9/11, shaking them out of their complacency and sending them into high alert against a suddenly major enemy. And given all the other times that Starfleet had successfully resisted assimilation or stymied Borg plans, the Borg recognized that their conventional tactics would not work against the Federation. So they did what they always do: they adapted. Faced with a serious threat they couldn't conquer or tolerate, they chose eradication as the only viable alternative. It took the Borg a few years to find a way to reach the UFP and carry out that plan, though. (The Borg seen in Resistance/Before Dishonor/GTTS were a separate offshoot of Borg, cut off from the main Collective due to the transwarp hub's destruction, acting on their own. Their "kill rather than assimilate" behavior was a defense mechanism activated by their need to protect their nascent Queen in Resistance. As for why they continued to enact that approach afterward, I guess that since the Queen's "birth" was aborted, they never got the order to stand down from that hyperaggressive state.)
     
  13. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Collective mass insanity. Basically, they tried assimilating the Federation with one cube at a time, and the UFP kept defeating the cubes. Then Voyager came along and struck a blow to their transwarp conduits — the kind of damage that makes you wince and say, "Oooo, that's gonna leave a mark." At that point the Borg decided to Hell with assimilating us; we weren't worth the trouble, and we were obstructing their other goals. Better to wipe us out before our technology and numbers become any more threatening.

    I know the feeling — I worked in foodservice.




    WARNING TO ALL WHO HAVE NOT READ LOST SOULS — MAJOR SPOILERS FOLLOW....




    When I was developing the trilogy outline with my editors, one of my key points for the ending was that "destroying the Borg" was not a true reflection of the Starfleet ethos or the Star Trek mythology. If this was to represent a step forward for the TrekLit continuity, I wanted to respect the Star Trek philosophy that it is better to create than to destroy, better to heal than to kill, better to make peace than to wage war.

    Interesting choice of words, considering my deliberate invocation of language from the New Testament in the final chapters of Lost Souls. :)

    Perhaps not by itself, but I like to think it can help like-minded individuals share good ideas. And that's where change begins.

    I know I'm an emotional old softie, but reading about your reaction to the trilogy has even made me a bit misty. It's very moving to hear that something I created has had such a profound impact on you as a reader. Thank you for sharing your feelings in such detail, particularly in a public forum. I'm both touched and honored.

    Yeah, Christopher and I had a great time figuring out what makes her tick.

    Her attraction to Worf was one of those things that evolved naturally. At first, it seemed like an attraction of opposites, but when I discussed it with Christopher, we realized the differences between her and Worf are fairly superficial; in their personal histories they have so many parallels that it's scary.

    I think it is reflected best in the scene in her quarters, when they talk about "the tree." By the time I reached the end of that scene, I realized that she might be as important a soul mate for Worf as Jadzia was.

    That, apparently, was why my editors insisted that I outline the entire trilogy as a single work before I could be green-lighted to proceed to manuscript. We made sure the narrative had an overall structure and symmetry before I wrote page one.

    I met Geddy and Alex in July 2007, backstage at the PNC Bank Arts Center in Holmdel, N.J., after the concert. (Neil doesn't do meet and greets anymore, but a couple of months later — after checking my bona fides with Kevin J. Anderson — he sent me a nice thank-you e-mail for the signed copies of A Time to Kill and A Time to Heal I had brought for him.) The whole story of that amazing day can be found on my blog.

    As far as whether Geddy's reading the trilogy, I doubt it. I haven't had a chance yet to send it to him (or to the other guys). As soon as I get my box o' comps from the publisher, I plan to inscribe and autograph complete sets for each member of the band, as well as for director Bryan Singer and my pal Randy, who introduced me to all of them. Since the book is dedicated to all of them, and they all make cameos in it, it seemed like a nice Christmas gift. :D

    Thanks again for all of your comments. It's reactions such as yours that make this job feel worthwhile.

    Best,
    David Mack
    P.S. — For those who have read Mere Mortals and Lost Souls, you might notice some familiar names of cameo characters from those books when you read my linked blog post… ;)
     
  14. Cobalt Frost

    Cobalt Frost Captain Captain

    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    David,
    Hot damn, sir, that book (and the whole trilogy, natch) was freakin' AWESOME!!! Just.. wow, it rocks, and rocks hard. I was hoping the ending would live up to the build-up (and that one of those pesky deus ex machina things wouldn't get pulled out :D ); not only did it do that, but it did in such a way that I was blown away. As has been stated, the resolution was in the truest Trek tradition. Plaudit!! Plaudit!!

    Now, I can't wait to see what comes next.. boldly forward for our heroes, no doubt, but what awaits them?
     
  15. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    ^ Gracias. Most kind of you. Glad you enjoyed it!

    As for what comes next... I wouldn't dream of spoiling the surprises. And there are plenty on the way, from everyone... :)
     
  16. Chi'pok

    Chi'pok Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I finally got my copy tonite; I politely and patiently waited at my B. Dalton (in Union Station in Washington DC) to see if they had it already; they went to the backroom and came out with the prize!! yay! I started reading it on the train; I want to savor it tho; will read it this weekend and into the week.

    Then when I finish it, I am going to reread the entire trilogy.

    Thanks again, David; I will let you know my thoughts when I'm done with LS.
     
  17. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    That's what I thought I read on that map. Thanks for the confirmation!

    Brief aside: We need a new starmap, I think. It need not be the whole of the galaxy but just the UFP-known space region in the wake of this latest round of "almost the Apocalypse". Something for inclusion in the eventual collected edition of the Destiny trilogy, perhaps. I'd imagine the deadline would be too tight for something to be set up for A Singular Destiny.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2008
  18. P0sitr0nic

    P0sitr0nic Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I got the book this morning, and i just finished it, being unable to put it down.

    Our Star Trek continues.
     
  19. Travis Chesser

    Travis Chesser Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    First time poster here - although I've posted at psiphi a few times.

    David - WOW! There are so many things to say... it was nice to see you juggle characters from so many series and remain true to them. Over the past few years, so many of my fav Trek characters have been book ONLY and it was nice to see how well they were used by you.

    In particular, I have a soft spot for Christine. I think I've loved her a bit since the A Time To... series, and she was stellar here as well. Bacco... kudos! And I will reiterate what another poster has said... Jasminder has quite simply overshadowed most screen Trek characters.

    This is quite an accomplishment for you and all the other Trek writers... making print only characters that meaningful, and making me rededicated to all the good old screen ones as well.

    SPOILERS FOLLOW:

    I have never EVER got even slightly misty eyed before in a Trek book. I think there were three or four times with this one. The scene with Tuvok's son....

    Once it dawned about the sheer power of what the Caeliar and Hernandez were going to do... once that whole idea sunk in, it was almost emotionally overwhelming, and than seeing your description of the trillions of drones everywhere...

    Picard's breakdown... but for me the most, even though I know Voyager's not a fan favorite but Seven has always been one of mine hands down, the final scene with her in the book... absolutely unbelievable and I hope Seven is used in Kirsten Beyer's forthcoming novels...

    I think most people obviously knew the Caeliar would be the source of resolution... but in a series filled with so much death and destruction, the awesome power of the pacifist ending was one of the most powerful ideas/images/events I have read in a novel this year, whether or not it was a Trek book or Pullitzer winning material.

    Thank you for this and for all that you accomplished, as well as setting up some new material for KRAD, Chris, Kirsten, and everyone else who now gets to play in the new playground. I know everyone was expecting some "major" deaths but I'm glad that no one else went the way of Janeway from main cast... the ones you did kill were enough, and I was really dreading who of the BIG characters were gonna go..

    Also, thanks for writing that Shar had left Andor. Appreciate it. However, I'm still mad about the purposeful suspense surrounding Voyager's crew..

    Thanks again!
     
  20. Gaius Polt

    Gaius Polt Ensign Newbie

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Dave,

    It has been a long long time since I got a book and read it straight though without worrying about sleeping. The last time was KRAD's AotF.

    I loved it and missed my morning appointment since I started reading at 6pm and didn't finish until 2:30am. I truly loved it.

    Couple of things?

    As I was reading book three, I was thinking to myself, "Where the heck is Geordi?" and then I got my answer. But once I finished his section I got the feeling that it had been added at the last minute because someone was thinking the same thing... Thoughts?

    In that same line, do you feel that the characterization of Picard when he ordered the Thalaron weapon to be built was in line with what we know about him? Or the parts where he was in such serious doubt about his future? I wanted to hear what you were thinking Picard was feeling when you wrote those parts so I could better understand where he was coming from.

    Thanks.