Destiny: Lost Souls by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by nx1701g, Nov 16, 2008.

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Grade Lost Souls

  1. Excellent

    72.1%
  2. Above Average

    19.1%
  3. Average

    7.1%
  4. Below Average

    0.5%
  5. Poor

    1.1%
  1. Dayton Ward

    Dayton Ward Word Pusher Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Can we spend three days talking about who makes the best Jimmy Olsen instead?
     
  2. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

    Ahhh!!! Maybe thats it!! You're on to something I think... she's been quoting him lately in DS9... and that may explain her decision in GoN to have that formal command thing, the one that Bowers wanted as a trade off...

    Interesting...
     
  3. Baerbel Haddrell

    Baerbel Haddrell Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade


    I am also sure that this isn`t over. It was just a start, giving Kedair a chance to look at what happened from a different perspective and giving her a crutch so that she could function during the crisis.

    Now that the threat is over, I agree that Kedair needs proper treatment. Dealing with a trauma takes a lot of time and she will need support.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I hope we actually get to see this in a future novel.

    This, and the public trial, treason conviction, and possible execution of every single member of Section 31 that the Federation can get its hands on.

    There are a lot of races that will have this viewpoint, I feel. The Klingons, for example. A Klingon would never be so weak as to allow themselves to even *be* taken prisoner, let alone used in that way.

    AAAA! Hell no! The whole fucking POINT of this massive series was to totally, irrevocably and permanently END the Borg. If the MU Borg pop up, that will be a galaxy-sized middle finger to the fans. :mad:

    I don't know what will ultimately happen to the MU Borg. I doubt that we will ever find out. Perhaps "The Worst Of Both Worlds" will prove to be definitive? We can only hope.
     
  5. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I think it's safe to say that the United Federation of Planets does not engage in capital punishment anymore, especially since they're not so much enemies with the Talosians anymore.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that exactly what constitutes membership in Section 31 is a bit, well, murky. I don't think they keep ledgers or tell people what the secret handshake is or hand out membership cards. Julian Bashir, for instance, is apparently considered to be a member of Section 31 by them, and has even undertaken missions upon being assigned one from Thirty-One; does that make him a member who deserves to be arrested and tried for treason? On the other hand, he's also a part of the Kirk cabal of anti-Thirty-One officers.

    Similarly, what about, say, Admiral Ross? He's apparently a member, he's undertaken operations on their behalf, he's collaborated with them. He even
    facilitated the assassination of Federation President Min Zife for them.
    But by the same token, to hear him talk about it in his head, he thought of himself as trying to hold them back and control them.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    Maybe they might want to reconsider this. Wouldn't it be much too dangerous to leave any Section 31 member alive?

    I don't count Bashir as a member, and never did. He was recruited against his will, and obviously did not agree with their ultimate goals. And as you say, he was part of the Kirk Cabal working against them. That leaves Bashir off the hook, as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm sure he did. But that doesn't absolve him of blame. Unlike Bashir, I consider Ross a full member of Section 31 who should be held accountable for their crimes. It's just a pity that Sloan is already dead and unable to face a public trial and punishment.
     
  7. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    That's a dangerous road to tread down. I mean, seriously, if we're going to violate one of the Federation's basic principles -- the right of sentient entities to live -- because we think that the ends of serving justice and protecting the Federation justify the means (execution) -- then, really, how are we any different from Section 31?
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I see your point. So what would you suggest the Federation do with them?
     
  9. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I'd say that locking them up in a high-security prison for a term lasting however long a qualified judiciary judges to be proportional to the severity of the crimes committed by that individual sounds good to me.
     
  10. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    That's crazy talk! What kind of government would practice justice like that?
     
  11. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I'm thinking this would pretty much have to be life for some of the highest ranking members. I'm mainly talking about the people who would have actually descided to try to wipe out the entire Changeling race, and murder the Federation President.
     
  12. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    That was strange and unexpected... I'd heard a bit about what TGTMD was about... but this I didn't see coming... (I read up just now from Memory Alpha or something). I love that Jake has a cat named Odo!



    Well, in theory an MU exists for every choice we make for the choice we didn't- so there are probably lots of MU borg... I don't think the fans will find it offensive- they'll have new respect and pity for the Borg, maybe be more sympathetic, try to help them, won't feel so overwhelmed... or maybe blow them up, who knows... I wouldn't be offended- kinda hard to shut those doors completely...
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    It's just that...after all this attention to the final, irrevocable end of the Borg, I would hate to have them brought back again in the MU. The Borg should end there too. Although, given the general state of affairs in that universe, *their* Borg will probably be dealt with more ruthlessly than these Borg have been.
     
  14. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    ^ True, but think of all the innocent people enslaved by the Borg who have died as "enemies." Its easy to forget that nice people with loved ones are also Borg- so maybe they can be dealt with less ruthlessly by the MU due to the revelations of the Destiny story...
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    I don't see the connection. Destiny dealt only with the 'real' universe, it had no MU connections whatsoever. No one in the MU is, or could be, aware of anything that happened in Destiny. If there is any relationship at all between the two universes' Borg, we are not aware of it yet.

    My concern is simply regarding the Borg as fictional characters (not how actual characters would deal with them). David Mack went to a lot of trouble to write this - to finally, unambiguously, END the Borg. If the MU Borg suddenly show up later on, doesn't that cheapen Destiny just a little bit?
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    You probably should have seen it coming. 2001's Section 31 mini-series featured each of the then-three canonical captains sans Sisko -- Kirk in 2268, Picard in 2373, and Janeway in 2374 -- becoming aware of the existence of Section 31 and vowing to find a way to bring them to justice. The foreshadowing seemed obvious to me at the time.

    And, sure enough, The Good That Men Do confirms that Section 31 is eventually uncovered and brought to justice. The only thing remaining to be told is the story of how they were brought to justice. :)
     
  17. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    But if I'm not mistaken- there are Borg in the MUs, at least in lit. So, unless the Caeliar dealt with or deal with them... then they're there. And I don't think that would cheapen it- I think the RU's experience, since we know contact with the MUs is possible, could help them deal with it- if it comes up. It may not. I'm just saying I won't be furious if they show up in some capasity again- Mack made the Borg scary for me, I wasn't afraid of them at all before- just hand me a Tommy gun... but that won't work against a cube. So now, since they actually cause me to feel emotions, I wouldn't mind if they popped in... thats all I meant.

    And Abyss? Did that fit in at all? (Bear in mind- the years make my brain fuzzy). Cause I remember Bashir and Vaugn's discussion... and figured they'd be found eventually... maybe. They must have good hiding skills.

    Though I feel less out of the loop knowing that we don't know the how yet.
    I rarely venture out of the DS9R, since thats were all my favourites are, for the most part... so I need to be caught up from time to time. Which you guys are awesome at... :)
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

    The Caeliar were the only way to permanently deal with the Borg in the RU, so unless the RU Caeliar somehow absorbed the MU Borg as well, or this whole thing coincidentally happened on its own in the other universe (with Mirror counterparts of the Caeliar, the Columbia crew, etc.), I don't see how that is relevant.

    In fact I'd wager that the latter explanation would be pretty much impossible, since much of Destiny depended on characters from the 24th century - who either have not yet been shown to exist *at all* in the MU, or who are so different there that the chances of Destiny happening in the MU are so absurdly remote as to not even be worth mentioning.
     
  19. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

    Question for David Mack: How/why did you choose the planets/species the Borg annihilated?

    I'm guessing people over at Paramount also had to okay the choices, but how do they decide too? And who are they? ...They must be trekkies also or they wouldn't know a Vorta from a Horta.
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

    ^On that same note, how was the decision to kill off certain characters (Owen Paris, Charivretha, T'Lana, ect) made?