Descent was TNG's best 2-parter

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by TroiFan4ever, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. TroiFan4ever

    TroiFan4ever Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    My favorite scene... the way they ended the first hour...

    Picard, Troi, Geordi, and the yellow shirt guy were in this big room looking for Data and I can't remember who but either Picard or Troi commented that the room looked like some kind of meeting hall (which was weird because that room is too big and there weren't any desks or tables or anything like that and it, too me, looked more like an alien gym).

    Geordi's tricorder scan finds something dangerous so they decide they should get the hell out of there but as they turn to leave -- too late! Thousands or Borgs (does "Borg" have a plural form? :confused:) come tearing into that big room surrounding them. All four of our people stop and go back toward each other armed with phasers.

    The yellow shirt is about to shoot a Borg. He manages to get off one shot but a few Borg (or Borgs) shoot him down and kill him on the spot. That was dumb and funny to try to attempt to kill all those thousands of Borg drones. Think about it: 4 now 3 Starfleet officers vs. thousands of Borg drones. They're outnumbered.

    The Borg take advantage of being outnumbered by closing in and ganging up on Picard, Troi, and Geordi about to hurt them but then who Picard think is Data comes up on the platform and shuts everyone up.

    When Lore is protesting and shows them the real Data, the Borg shout out their approval and Troi, Picard, and Geordi have no choice but to look on that scene of madness.

    I'm just wondering how hard it was to locate Data when he was in that room the entire time. He still had on his combadge so it should'nt have been that hard to find him. If my memory is straight, one group was looking for Data. I think that was Picard's Away Team as Worf and Riker were with Huge trying to find Picard, Geordi, and Troi.

    And if Lore and Data are both robots, even if they have emotions, how is Troi able to sense feelings in them? I thought Troi could only read minds of living biological lifeforms.

    By the way, that's an interesting way to start the New Years holiday 2370 (Pt. 1 ended Season 6 and Pt. 2 was Season 7's premiere)!

    Oh, and in case anyone's interested, I just learned that the yellow shirt at the Aft Science Station working with the girl at the tactical station is Jo-Bril's human form.

    For an overall review I think the 2-hour "Descent" episode was my favorite TNG 2-parter... just above "Gambit" because of Data going nuts and turning against the crew, Beverly being left having to watch the ship with minimal bridge crew, and that exciting scene with Picard, Troi, and Geordi in that big room being confronted by that big Borg army.

    They must have had a REALLY Big budget to be able to afford all those extras and all those Borg costumes... which brings me to say this...

    I found it interesting how the outpost where the first Away Team that got ambushed by Borg was the same outpost their party took place in the "Starship Mine" episode. I'm unclear... did Riker, Worf, Data, and the yellow shirt beam to the Akira Base or the Borg ship?

    Oh and I love hearing Data speak in Picard's voice... when Data fooled Geordi into thinking Picard came to get him out of there.

    This was just a great episode. I just wish I could forget the outcome of this episode so I can watch it again.
     
  2. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    I'm glad you enjoyed it. I find it entertaining, but if I were to rank it among TNG's 10 two-parters, it would place 6th

    Best Of Both Worlds
    All Good Things...
    Chain Of Command
    Redemption
    Unification
    Descent
    Gambit
    Time's Arrow
    Encounter At Farpoint
    Birthright
     
  3. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Easily the weakest TNG Borg story. They're just Lore's bland henchmen.
     
  4. Kirks_Flying_Wig

    Kirks_Flying_Wig Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Location:
    England
    Not a fan of Descent as a Borg story but it's an OK two-parter, with a few daft lines and hammy acting from Spiner thrown in.

    "The sons of Soong have joined together, and together, we will destroy the Federation." is just about the worst line ever spoken on TNG.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Descent was awful. First, they ruined the Borg by making them individuals. Thank goodness First Contact totally ignored this episode. And then there's useless doctor Beverly Crusher and two nobodies easily destroying an enourmous Borg ship. And people complain about Janeway evading and defeating the Borg in Voyager:cardie:
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    It was.

    Actually, this was my favorite part of the episode (faint praise, of course).

    At least these three weren't utterly incompetent like the rest of the crew. I mean, let's just bumble right into getting captured, shall we?

    And at least the Crusher C-plot didn't involve subjecting the main cast, and us, to predictable and protracted clich├ęs. Did anyone believe for one second that Data was actually going to melt Geordi's brain?
     
  7. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    For me, I think it was the worst two-parter. I never bought into the whole Lore controlling a bunch of ex Borg drones thing.
     
  8. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2001
    "Thousands" of Borg drones? Hardly. More like dozens, if that. Most of the drone extras were mirrored for the scene where they rush in.

    Sorry, Troi fan, but you may be the only person who likes "Descent", parts one or two. At least someone does.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    Great Britain
    TNG's best 2-parter was Chain of Command. Best of Both Worlds is great but it's really just a blockbuster action story and doesn't have any depth. Seeing it overtake The Inner Light, Darmok or Yesterday's Enterprise in polls for Best TNG Episode makes me sad.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
    weak two-parter. Data's "descent" is very obviously externally caused from the scene way back in part I with the Borg in the brig. The episode makes the Borg look more like Ferengi or Klingons than what made them interesting. The "Crusher in command" subplot was silly as well.

    some good action and Spiner's performance as Lore are pluses though. And hey, at least it's not "birthright."
     
  11. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I enjoyed Data's badassesness against the Borg he fought. And the ruthlessness in dissecting his sentient brother rather than giving him anything resmbling due process. And of course Lore's parting barb, "I love you brotherrrrrr....."
     
  12. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I've always thought Gambit was the worst two-parter. It's so slow and boring. It easily could have been trimmed down to one episode.

    Gambit, Descent and Birthright are snoozefests that I usually skip.

    TNG got weaker with each of its season cliffhangers. BOBW was excellent, Redemption was good, Time's Arrow was OK, and Descent was meh, IMO.
     
  13. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Yeah, it was quite decent.
     
  14. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, TX

    Yes, Gambit could have been an one-parter easily, but it didn't have the absurdness Descent had.
     
  15. Praetorian

    Praetorian Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    All the interesting threads set up in the first part are either forgotten or resolved in the most uninteresting of ways. Let's see:

    The morality of Picard's decision to spare Hugh versus the utility of it. This is brought up by the Admiral in the first part, and Picard seems to be willing to concede that he might have been wrong. Simply forgotten in the second part. Having Hugh aiding the heroes does not adress this!

    The concept that there are not bad emotions, only bad actions, and that good things can come from such "bad" emotions. Simply forgotten, Data is just fed bad emotions, acts like a jerk, and doesn't come around on his own. We could have had growth for Data, but no...

    Lore waging war against the Federation. Again, dropped. Lore just spends the second part walking around and giving Data his next fix. Didn't he say he was going to destroy the Federation?

    And then we have the absurdity of the entire command staff beaming down and leaving the medical officer in charge... Really? I know they were probably "preparing" the fans for Voyager (because female captains are something trek fans are unfamiliar with...if only one of the Enterprises had been commanded by one...), but it makes zero sense.

    Loads of treknobabble, specially during the prison break, with Picard talking about kedion pulses and other similar nonsense. In fact, in these episodes the amount of treknobable spewed by Picard is just ridiculous. If I remember correctly, he algo gives technicall insight on how to navigate the corridors. What? Picard was never a scientist...

    Such a waste...
     
  16. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2002
    Location:
    Devon, England
    I enjoyed it, the first part was was probably the first Trek 2 parter I'd seen where they hadn't even filmed the resolution when I saw it.

    There's no build up to the Time's Arrow's cliffhanger. Can't even remember Gambit's
     
  17. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Hotel Transylvania
    "Descent" was the worst TNG two parter.

    Part one advertised as a huge Borg story, and we ended up getting a silly Lore story in Part Two instead. All the main characters were dumbed down to get the plot to work. Having the ENTIRE senior staff beam onto a planet leaving the Doctor in command with a skeleton crew?

    I'll take "Times Arrow" over this stupidity any day.
     
  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2002
    Ah yes, Time's Arrow's so uninteresting I had forgotten about it. The original plan of not making it a two parter would probably have been better, and would have spared us all that Mark Twain nonsense.

    Birthright is another failed two parter. Not only one of the plots is completely dropped in the second part (Data's dreams), the other one is badly handed. Having Worf dealing with the fact that his father was still alive, but living side by side with his blood enemies in peace, eschewing the so called sacred Klingon ways, would probably have been more interesting. Also it seems to me that the episode takes Worf's side on the matter, justifying the break up of a peaceful community on the account of tradition. Now, this is quite an interesting subject, I just think the episode didn't really approached it well.

    Gambit, on the other hand, I find to be quite a fun romp. True, the cliffhanger is weak, but apart from that it injected a heavy dose of adventure and fun in a season that sorely needed it.
     
  19. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Hotel Transylvania
    This is what dooms the episode for me. When did the senior staff lose their brains like that? Picard didn't even have a good reason for going onto the planet!

    I think they were trying to set up the future scenes of "All Good Things" with the Crusher in command plot, but it could have been done so much better than what we got. Do a separate episode with her in command instead of the stupid ghost with candle episode.
     
  20. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    9th level of Hell
    What's hard to judge is that I really, really like part one. Out of the true two episodes (as opposed to the two hour broadcasts of Encounter at Farpoint and All Good Things), it's first part is my 2nd favorite first part of a two part story, but it's 2nd part was utterly awful. In my opinion the worst or tying as 2nd worst 2nd part of a two part TNG story.

    Just Yuck.