deg3D_TOS.5 Enterprise

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by deg3D, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. GilmourD

    GilmourD Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, if this is an animated affect... Weren't blue and green part of the original affect as well as other colors?
     
  2. ncc-1017-e

    ncc-1017-e Captain Captain

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    You Know I think that the interior workings on the front and the back of the warp nacellecs should reflect the little bolt tipps on the front of the warp drive engines! THey are three and I think that the interior workings that we see on the front and the back should reflect "3" instead of 4 if you know what I mean!
     
  3. ncc-1017-e

    ncc-1017-e Captain Captain

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    ^ And yea I do think that the front looks concaved and not round! I would put spikes from deep within the front of the engine coming out like on the Cage Enterprise, but you would see where they started from deep in the front of the nacelle!
     
  4. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think I like the red better.
     
  5. GilmourD

    GilmourD Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, this is supposed to be an intermediary between TOS and TMP, so I don't know how well it would work to step back on the design.
     
  6. MadMan1701A

    MadMan1701A Commodore Commodore

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    Yep, there definitely were some blue/green in there, but it wasn't as prominent as the Red/Orange/yellow colors. I was meaning to do it with ONLY blue and green shades, with the base dome color being a bluish tint, instead of red. :)

    -=MadMan1701A=-
     
  7. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the input guys. :) I really appreciate your help, as it is always nice to have new sets of eyes on something IMO, as one person (me in this case) can tend to get tunnel-vision and/or too attached to ideas that may or may not be working as well as they could. Esp. in regard to this last stickler detail that has been doggin' me a bit.

    And I hear ya on the three thingy Jeff, makes perfect sense to me. And the concave optical effect too. I had not noticed that until BK613 had mentioned it yesterday. Then I saw it, and was like, hmmm, that's definitely a big draw-back coming from the shifted-axis design of my new vanes, even if I kinda liked 'em.

    As it stands, I have moved back toward a modified 12-spoke pin-wheel, having created a new interior twinkle effect, in both a traditional multi-color take, and a blue-and-white with hints of aqua version. At this point, I am leaning toward the latter, as I said, blue is my fav color, and IMO, those colors tend to lend themselves more in this day-and-age to a plasma/technological color and feel IMO.

    Plus, it changes it up a bit (and I love and embrace change) and brings something new in vision, while still retaining a feel of tradition, to the Trek 'verse.

    I rigged the whole efx so that all I have to do is replace two maps (one port and one starboard) to change the color back to the multi-color Christmas tree efx, if I end up not liking the plasma-blue enough. At this point I am liking the new tweaked vanes structure whatever the color ends up being (leaning toward the plasma-blue FatherRob+. ;) We'll see...)

    Thanks again for all the much valued input my fellow Trekkers. More stuff soon. :)

    LLP,
    deg
     
  8. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    BTW MadMan1701A, love your avie eh! :techman:

    deg
     
  9. GilmourD

    GilmourD Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    So, I assume that you've done some animated output with the nacelles? :evil::drool:
     
  10. JBElliott

    JBElliott Commander Red Shirt

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    Overall, I think this is the best "updated" version of TOS Enterprise that I've ever seen. I'd be very, very, VERY HAPPY if this was the look that was used in the upcoming movie. In a lot of ways it a perfect example of the stuff I've heard about the look of the new movie just being an "HD version" of TOS.

    I love the update of the nacelle endcaps and the impulse engine. I like the blue glow effect on the interiors of the nacelles, subtle enough that in daylight it might not be seen. I like the aft portion of the nacelle pylons too.

    That said, I've got some minor criticisms. I've never been a fan of the grid lines or "aztecking" since I've always felt it made ships look less advanced not more. I also don't like all the phaser banks and torpedo tubes. There was a version of TOS Enterprise posted in this forum a long time ago which had the bottom, lighted "cap" of the saucer with a phaser/photon torpedo turret in it's ring. Alternatively, for a technology as advanced as Starfleet, there might not be any need for turrets or torpedo tubes. I'm torn on the bussard collectors. I've always like the "glowing plasma" look from the later versions of the Enterprise (NCC-1701-D and even the NX-01), but the ones here might make me change my mind about that.

    Still those are minor gripes and over all this is a nice update with some of the most imaginative and brilliant changes I've seen. Far more creative, in my opinion, than some of the other "updates" that have been around recently and been rumored to be the ship to be used in the upcoming movie.
     
  11. MadMan1701A

    MadMan1701A Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks. :) That's me, dressed up for Halloween, 2 years ago. Some help from Photoshop was required. :)

    -=Madman1701A=-
     
  12. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    No, I have not actually gotten around to running any ani tests yet dude. Just trying to get the overall "look" to where I like it.


    Thanks very much JBElliott, glad ya like her eh. :)

    No intention to proselytize, as I accept your view on E (heck, we all have one don't we? :)), but I'll share my thoughts as to your points for the fun of (and my love of) Trek-Talk, as I call it. :)

    I myself like the efx of hull plating. That just a personal-taste thing. I totally understand what you are saying as to it perhaps lending to the impression of less advancement, but I do like it. And I tend to disagree, as I believe even in the future, if you are going to build large structures with metal, it is going to have to be done with small pieces welded together. Sure, maybe SF came up with some kind of one-piece coating along the lines of the integrity fields to gloss over the plating, but I don't feel that would be as interesting to look at in this day-and-age of models. (Heck, even Gene thought she needed some lines on her, that Matt begrudgingly lightly penciled in, that ended up (as per Jefferies' intentions) being washed out under the lights and lost on film). And also, one big non-plated ship, IMO, aside from just not being as interesting to look at, would also end up making it look too much like a cheesy 60's model, or even worse, a plastic toy.

    And opinion aside, a point as to my own hull hull plating; I can't stand Aztec patterning! IMO, speaking from an industrial construction POV, there is just is no way any ship would end up out of the shipyard with perfectly symmetrical repetitive patterns all over it. Some would argue that those patterns are some type of field generators, and that's not bad, but for me, Aztec patterning as an efx never worked. IMO Aztec patterning was just a 90's quick and easy way that was developed to lay down the efx of hull plating. And, being such an easy method, became a standard for CG Trek models among artists less willing to go the extra-mile for their art, or just not savvy enough with industrial design sense to think to do anything else. Either way, it's waaaaay out-dated and amateurish at this point in the game IMO.

    Now my plating, there is not one single repeat pattern anywhere on her. I hand-picked every single plate group, by hand, and it took days and days and days to do. Which is why I can understand why folks do not do it. And, the capper, it may not even show up as making any difference, other than in the ortho shots! But I know for me, it's more along the lines of how I feel real random hull plating patterning would emerge, as per real construction.

    As to the phaser banks and torpedo tubes; the phaser banks are based on the refit, and the two torpedo tubes are based on my view of where they would be, this extrapolated from watching the show itself (TOS), this being the position where I feel the beams and torpedos are emerging.

    The "turret" idea on the "lighted cap" is a no-go for me for two reasons. First being, turrets. So not Star Trek/StarFleet IMO. BSG. SW. Buck Rogers, sure sure. Trek, no (IMO). Second, that "lighted cap" is actually a sensor array, and not an armament array in any way, so that goes against the idea for me right there. Plus, extending turrets would change her profile, and that was my goal, to keep her profile 100% intact.

    As to the "need" for torpedos tubes in or on SF vessels, well, this has been established as Trek canon on-screen (the only canon for me) time-and-time again, so I have no prob with the concept, as well, it's on-screen Trek canon.

    As to the bussard efx, that remains to be seen. I will say this, I am liking the new efx I have come up with, enough to know for sure that I have 30+ final renders that are all going to have to be re-rendered, as the old red efx is definitely o-u-t, out.

    Whether that opinion is shared by others, that remains to be seen. And my thought is, as it always is in this regard, some will love it, some will like it, some won't care one way or another, and some will hate it. Comes with the turf when creating any type of art, but esp. when presenting Trek art to folks that generally have very strong opinions on that something that they love so very much. Passion really. Whatever the opinion, ultimately, I have to go with what I like best. And if my vision/interpretation happens to make some more Trekkers happy as well, well then, that makes it even all the more enjoyable to have built her. :)

    Thanks for you inputs dude, much appreciated. :)

    PLL,
    deg
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2008
  13. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    ;)

    deg
     
  14. JBElliott

    JBElliott Commander Red Shirt

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    deg,

    It's not proselytizing, but discussing. :D

    On the subject of hull plating or aztecking, as with everything, the appearance will always be a matter of personal taste. As for the plastic model look, your own version has many nice fine details that, within the context of the fiction, look to serve some purpose. That level of detail goes a long way to make the ship look less like a plastic model. On the other hand, given the rise of composite materials that even today rival metal in strength etc., who is to say a starship won't look like a plastic model as it could be made of plastic? :D Also, part of what makes things advanced is that you don't always see the "moving parts" or the things that show how things work. In that respect a ship without seams is more advanced than a ship with seams.

    On the subject of whether a starship capable of the things the Enterprise is will have hull plating is another matter. Given the energy output of warp engines, the level of computational power, transporter technology and scanning technology shown in TOS, it's within the realm of TOS possibility to "beam" the entire Enterprise into existence as a single piece. Alternatively, the hull of the ship could be "grown" or assembled using nanotech to build it from the atom up. Either way would result in no hull plating. I'm sure there are many other TOS consistent ways to get around hull plating if it was desired.

    On the topics of banks, turrets and tubes, given what was observed on screen in TOS, both the phasers and photon torpedoes look to appear near the central part of the underside of the saucer. That's in agreement with the idea that there are no banks, turrets or tubes at all (since we never really saw them in TOS) and that the phasers and photon torpedoes don't require banks, turrets or tubes. Of course the movies and following series changed that, but then those don't count. ;) Or at least they shouldn't! On the other hand, much to my chagrin, at least one of the original models used in TOS did have a turret poking out of the bottom, central part of the saucer. It's visible in some photographs of the models that can be found around the net, it's also on the CGI model used for TOS-R (check out the ultra high resolution images that were released when TOS-R premiered) and it's on the Master Replicas version of TOS Enterprise (the one on mine fell off and I never replaced it since I like it better without the turret :D ).
     
  15. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    Really? Wow. I have never seen this turret, and I have gathered many many shots of E as reference. I musta just missed it, or never saw the ones you are referring to, as, there are a lot of shots to be found of E on the net.

    On ENT (IAM, D) they had these little itty-bitty numbs near the ventral saucer sensor array that emitted the phaser beams. I didn't care for them, as they seemed to insubstantial to me to be Mighty E's weapons (actually it was the DEFIANT, but same dif). And they launched torpedos out the aft end into the Tholian asteroid base, where these actual launchers were supposed to have been, you got me hangin'... :D

    But hey, fudging the details to fit the story-line is nothing new in Trek eh. :)

    Oh, and all your reasoning about non-plating is well thought-out and I agree 100%, for that particular application and envisioning. :)

    deg
     
  16. deg3D

    deg3D Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh dude!

    I have been sayin' for yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaars, they need to issue a cellphone that looks like a communicator. Great minds eh... :D

    deg
     
  17. JBElliott

    JBElliott Commander Red Shirt

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    A few images:

    Here's the plasma in the bussard collectors from a "Ships of the Line" calander a few years back:

    [​IMG]

    The "phaser turret" or "ion pod" on the big TOS Enterprise model:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and on the MR TOS Enterprise:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. JBElliott

    JBElliott Commander Red Shirt

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    Of course on TOS-R they still didn't use the ion pod as the phaser turret:

    [​IMG]

    Here's a link to a very high resolution image of TOS-R Enterprise that shows the ion pod: http://www.trekmovie.com/images/newent1.jpg
     
  19. JBElliott

    JBElliott Commander Red Shirt

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    And they almost did it! Sona mobile or some such was about to. That never happened though. So when the iPhone came out, I just figured someone would make a case that would be TOS-o-riffic.
     
  20. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you're considering blue as the main color for your nacelles, might I suggest some orange accents either around the edges or in the center as an accent color? Perhaps blue as the overall color of the 'plasma' with orange being some sort of reaction taking place. Since the main color of the original nacelles was orange it makes sense from an 'evolutionary' point of view and the colors just look good together in general anyways.