Define Vulcan love. Sexual and Paternal.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Mr. Scott, May 10, 2009.

  1. Mr. Scott

    Mr. Scott Commander

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    I haven't seen Star Trek 11, (I live in the Zhong Guo Federation and haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see it next week) but I want to know if they expain this backstory.

    http://www.trekcore.com/specials/rare/Sarek_Family.jpg

    This crazy family................................

    Does the movie explain how Serek and his wife met in the first place? What did she see in the man? Serek was a humorless fellow. Very Vulcan, very unemotional

    Explain Vulcan sexuality as it is expalined in the series? I know about "Ponn Farr" where Vulcans go into mating season once every seven years, and that they have to go back to the person that they were bonded to (arranged marriage) to meet. I have always thought this was a retarded plotline, but how else can the writers explain sexuality in an unemotional species of people? How can a human like her get that handsome Vulcan into bed?

    How can someone relate to an unemotional person. How does the unemotional person care about anyone else? If you are unemotional, you do not care about anything. Your family, your life or yourself. Maybe a fatalist worldview.

    Then Serek in TNG marries a second human! I think that was a dumb device, maybe Serek should have married a Vulcan woman, maybe the woman that he was originally bonded to.

    I would think that Vulcan would be xenophobic to a great degree, other people from other worlds can visit, but cannot really assimilaite or understand the Vulcan culture and rather grow old of the place. Can it be said that Serek and his wife were the first interracial couple in all of Vulcan? I have read that the Vulcan children in Star Trek 11 call the child Spock's mother a "whore". Why would they do this, if they were devoid of emotion. Since love is an emotion which is not practiced, the whore reference was towards that no alien should marrya Vulcan and Spock was a b*s*ard.

    Vulcans have been occasionally portrayed as somewhat rude people, using logic to make their points which without their knowledge annoys their hosts, especially human ones. Dr. McCoy/Spock was an example of this.

    Sarek was a very strict father, but he always loved Spock and wanted what was best for him. But how can an unemotional person love anyone? Love is an emotion. I have also inferred from all the series that Vulcans do feel, but through culture and training have blotted most of their feelings out, but a Vulcan does have feelings.

    Enterprise really screwed up the Vulcans, the actors in the Vulcan roles had emotions. I have imbibed too much Romulan Ale to do research, but the Vulcans were almost villians in that series and several episodes played that out. I liked the Vulcan who was the supervisor and mentor of T'Pol.

    My favorite Vulcan was Tuvok from Voyager played by Tim Russ. Russ played the role beautifully.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2009
  2. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

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    There is a conversation. Sarek was ambassador to Earth. He considered it logical to marry a human to understand us better. And he loved her. He also seems much less strict, IMO, with Spock the boy and the young Vulcan adult. But of course, this is an alternate timeline so...
     
  3. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Vulcans do have emotions. In the movie Serak tells Spock that Vulcan emotions are stronger than that of most other species. In the past their strong emotions led them to be violent, and Surak's philosophies taught them to repress their emotions and control them, but those emotions are still there.
    Sarek fell in love with Amanda, and after her death fell in love with Perrin. So he is obviously attracted to human women. Most people do have a "type" after all. He probably saw in Perrin many of the same qualities Amanda had.
    Sarek is a very handsome, intelligent and charismatic man, it doesn't seem strange to me at all that Amanda fell in love with him.
    Spock is supposed to be the first successful Vulcan/human hybrid child, but I don't know that anything was ever said about Sarek and Amanda being the first Vulcan/human couple. We know from Enterprise that T'Pol and Trip were involved but they didn't marry.
    The Vulcan children clearly had not developed strong control of their emotions yet.
     
  4. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Mr. Scott, please don't hotlink images (use image tags to directly post an image) unless you have permission. Use a special image hosting website like photobucket if you're unsure or just leave it as a link :)
     
  5. SpocksBondmate

    SpocksBondmate Ensign Red Shirt

    Good points...although I do know that Spock eventually had to "embrace" his human side. That being said, couldn't Sarek have done the same? I think that if he had, maybe Spock and Sarek would have had a better relationship.
     
  6. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In the first place, as others have pointed out, Vulcans do experience emotions. Their mission, if I can call it that, is to make sure those emotions don't cloud their judgment or cause them to do things that should not be done...or not do things that should be done. I don't see anything incompatable with that and loving your spouse and kids.

    In the second place, there is no evidence that Vulcans can have sex only during pon farr - they are driven to mate then, but they can presumably have sex anytime they want to, just like us humans. There is canonical evidence, both overt and implied, that this is so.

    Finally, it's obvious to many present-day human females exactly what Amanda and Sarek's second wife saw in Sarek. ;) Really. He's a very attractive man. So's Spock. Lots and lots and lots of female Trek fans preferred them to Kirk back in the day - and I was (and am) one of them. I think the network was kind of surprised by Sarek's and Spock's sexual appeal, actually.
     
  7. KimMH

    KimMH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^ of course they were surprised. they were probably mostly men! (can't live with 'em can't just bury them in the backyard . . . )
     
  8. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :lol:

    Of course they were mostly men - I was going to point that out but decided to pretend to be all politically correct. Until now. ;) But that is their only excuse, as far as I can tell.

    So, Mr. Scott - there you have it. To you, a human female being attracted to Sarek might seem inexplicable, but lots of human females understand it perfectly. Hmmm, now that I think about it, a few weeks back there was a Mark Lenard/Sarek thread...Here it is: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=83986&highlight=lenard

    Lots of Vulcan/Sarek love there!
     
  9. Sovereign_One

    Sovereign_One Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the link! :drool:
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  10. S'kai

    S'kai Captain Captain

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    This is something we do not speak of to outsiders.
     
  11. barnaclelapse

    barnaclelapse Commodore Commodore

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    What was the great line from III?

    "My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned."

    That always kind of summed up Vulcans for me. It spoke volumes of their emotions and faith.
     
  12. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    As for Sarek not embracing emotions, I imagine that Sarek faced a lot of prejudice and difficulties after marrying Amanda, perhaps that caused him to overcomensate and be "more" Vulcan and repressed.
    I always was frustrated by how Sarek pushed Spock to reject his human side, but perhaps he was trying to protect Spock from all the bigots who would try and use that human side against him.
     
  13. erebus

    erebus Commander

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    I agree with this, my parents did the same with me and my brothers (as first generation children of indian immigrants in England, our overprotective parents wanted us not to assimulate English ways or develop strong relationships with English people, because they felt that ultimately we wouldnt' be accepted because of our race and only get hurt, probably because being relatively uneducated they'd suffered a lot of racial abuse in their own experience).
     
  14. barnaclelapse

    barnaclelapse Commodore Commodore

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    That's how it seemed to me, especially when their relationship started getting into the movies.
     
  15. Sovereign_One

    Sovereign_One Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is how. :)
     
  16. Crewman47

    Crewman47 Commodore Newbie

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    Was the Vulcan Priestess, mother of Sybok, Sareks first wife, making Amanda 2nd and Perrin 3rd, or was she just a one night stand? How much of an age difference is there between Sybok than Spock anyway?
     
  17. Cave Canis

    Cave Canis Ensign Newbie

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    I too think Vulcan's have deep, profound emotions and passion but have developed the ability to "control it lest it control them" (Sarek to Spock - Star Trek XI). And Spock must contend with his human side which has less ability to control those emotions. And too, in ST XI he is a young Vulcan not having gone through Kalinar yet so it might have been even more difficult for him.

    It does raise a question for me.... how would Spock learn how to please a human woman? How did that relationship begin? Just curious...

    Cave Canis
     
  18. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

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    I'm sure the 23rd Century still has, ahem, literature dealing with the subject ;)
     
  19. barnaclelapse

    barnaclelapse Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly. It's just easier to try and put the whole thing under lock and key than it is to deal with the emotions on a moment-to-moment basis, though Spock seems to prove that it's certainly possible for a Vulcan to live like that.

    As for Spock/Sarek, I actually had no idea Sarek had the sex symbol thing going as well.

    Even in the new movie? Really?
     
  20. stoneagepunk

    stoneagepunk Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I actually never understood, why Sarek and Amanda married. I can understand that Amanda was attracted to Sarek, but it seems illogical that a vulcan marries a human woman.
    I am very upset with Sarek about the way he treated Spock. and I imagine Amanda must have been upset too.

    Why would Sarek sulk, only because spock decided to join Star Fleet? That's an emotional reaction.