Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Cheney)

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by randomfan86, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Actually I can't even be sarcastic about that. She did not want to protect humans. Her only priority was destroying Cylons, and if she had to destroy humans to do so, she was fine with that.

    She had no intention of protecting anything.
     
  2. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Locutus wins the thread. Nothing more to see here, folks, game over.
     
  3. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    but wheres the fun in not needlessly dragging it out until everyone loses all perspective?
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Done. :lol:
     
  5. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    This whole thread has been an entertaining exercise in shooting barrel-bound fish.
     
  6. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    how dare you advocate fishocide!
     
  7. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Cylons nuking all the colonies and trying to kill every single surviving human is not a genocide? Because that's who Cain was aiding with her actions. Give her some more time and she would have succeeded.

    She has a weird way of showing it.
     
  8. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Yes, which is what the Cylons were doing to humans. Did you miss the part where I said she "aided and abetted" a genocide, not committed a genocide herself?

    Getting a third of her crew killed in an obvious trap after already losing 700 people in the initial Cylon attack on the shipyards, permitting the murder of civilians by her crew directly, breaking up families who would have much needed children to continue the species, and leaving the civilian fleet crippled and vulnerable to Cylon attack were all things that benefited the Cylon's goal of the destruction of humanity.

    She lacked the intent to commit genocide against her own species, but she sure as hell helped the process along.

    I miss BSG since it went off the air. Can I borrow the version you watched? I love alternate scenes, and it seems whatever you watched was entirely made up of them, because what you describe is the exact opposite of what she did in the version I saw.
     
  9. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    It's also worth pointing out that Starbuck is hardly a good judge of character, so relying on her word that the fleet was 'less safe' with Cain gone doesn't hold much water.

    Cain was intended to be what Adama would have become without Roslin. It's all there in the miniseries and the coup in Season 1: he was set to leave the civilians to die at Ragnar so he could go out in a blaze of glory, fighting a hopeless battle. Given his tendencies towards authoritarianism, he could have very easily gone down the path of raiding civilian vessels for military needs.

    As others have mentioned, BSG was about what it meant to be 'worthy' of survival. How much can and should we give up of ourselves in the face of horror and disaster? Cain failed her test soundly from the show's POV. It takes a fairly slanted reading to get anywhere close to admiration for her or her actions. Her treatment of her former lover in and of itself is more than enough evidence that Cain was motivated not by military need but petty revenge for being duped by a skinjob.
     
  10. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Don't worry, we'll get Cain to protect the fish.
     
  11. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Jcrk6jGfo[/yt]
     
  12. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    I could be wrong, but didn't Starbuck also have a personal stake in trusting Cain, namely that Cain was planning to take the fleet back to Caprica to rescue Anders and the resistance fighters?

    It's not like Starbuck was looking at Cain objectively.
     
  13. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Sorry to point this out, but the OP joined on April 1st. We might just have all fallen for a troll.
     
  14. randomfan86

    randomfan86 Lieutenant

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Not a troll. She really is my favorite character on the show and I feel she gets too much crap from fans especially when put it in the context of real leaders (Lincoln, FDR, Park) who have done things much worse in war yet are lionized today. Let us not try to impugn the motives of those we disagree with. I will respond to the previous posts.
     
  15. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    how about putting her in the context of real leaders that havent done bad things (nelson mandela?) or been turned into lions?
     
  16. randomfan86

    randomfan86 Lieutenant

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    She always wanted to take back Caprica. So did Adama. I believe her statement and Adama's statement at the end of Razor were meant to vindicate Cain.
     
  17. randomfan86

    randomfan86 Lieutenant

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    She became ruthless before the personal betrayal. So I'm inclined to believe it didn't have a part in it. "Worthy of survival"...that was in reference to Adama killing Cain. Cain was about to kill Adama, but she did not either. When she saw how successful a collabotartive effort between the two ships could be in taking out the Cylons, she chose not to take Adama out. That indicates it was more about taking out the Cylons than any personal motives.
     
  18. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    her personal motive was taking out the cylons
     
  19. randomfan86

    randomfan86 Lieutenant

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    Adama has said he cannot find anything tactically wrong with what she did when fighting the Cylons. Cain did want to protect humans. Pretty much every character acknowledges they owe their lives to her. Starbuck says they are less safe without her, and Adama tacitly agrees at the end of Razor.
     
  20. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

    so wheres the evidence for 'cain did want to protect humans'? there's none onscreen and you've repeatedly made that statement
     
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