Dear Doctor... How could you do this?

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by Jefferies, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Don't you think looking cool is part of making the movie as well? They do need to put butts in the seats you know.

    Exactly my point. :techman:

    Very plausible. And how many times did Scotty(prime) complain over the years?

    Sure they did. Why not? It did look pretty cool. No reason was given other than to hide the Enterprise.

    Because you don't know the reason does not make it pointless.

    Yup, we can most certainly imply that the reason Kirk put it down there was logical as Spock definitely supported it.

    Another neat part to that scene was at the end, when the natives drew the Enterprise in the dirt and that silhouette morphed into the real 1701.

    My only real beef with the opening scene, was the "cold fusion" thing.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
  3. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Guys, there's a different forum for discussion of Trek movies. Can we get this discussion back to the OP's topic, or move on? Thanks.
     
  4. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't forget. It's just that in my 43 years of going to the movies, that particular stunt struck me as stupid.

    I dunno. Maybe I'm just too old to appreciate movie stunts anymore....
     
  5. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Yeah, her response is exactly what you get when something has gone from a "reasoned argument" into "dogma." It's actually a horrible answer.


    I have no idea what the repercussions would be if I saved stopped to save anyone from their burning house. None. The people I save could raise the next Hitler. They aren't guilty of that, but they still very well could be indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions of people in the future. It's based on two fallacies, that evolution has a pre-determined goal(that you evolve naturally into death), and that the universe has a "cosmic" plan(That someone is destined to die from a disaster.) Neither of which has any reasoned or scientific basis, and frankly goes against the better parts of Gene's humanist-centric future.

    I cannot fathom someone basing their morality on this fundamentally flawed, dogmatic, perspective. Should decisions be made carefully? Should one stay out of the internal affairs of another planet/nation/tribe? Absolutely. That's in fact the much more sensible interpretation of the PD, but, to suggest that helping someone when they're dying or at the risk of massive disaster is somehow wrong has to be considered a totally unacceptable perspective when it is especially so haphazardly applied.

    I've often wondered if from the writers perspective this was conceived because aliens haven't ever visited us and thus must have some kind of a non-interference policy, aside from buzzing groups of hippies and mutilating cows, that is. :lol:


    Again, I find that much of Enterprise had good ideas, but often poorly executed them. They became too formulaic and rigid about what they could or couldn't do. The only reason Dear Doctor has that awful ending is because the original ending was cast aside. TPTB said the crew should always be on the same side of an issue... IE, much like what Gene said with early TNG, that they couldn't have any tensions or drama among the Enterprise crew. Which I think seems awful silly. People are going to disagree. Always. Even in the future.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've never delved too deeply in the behind the scenes stuff. What was the original ending supposed to be?
     
  7. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Don't quote me on this, it's been awhile, but as I recall Phlox was basically supposed to be at odds with Archer over the situation. Instead of them both shaking hands and being cool with genocide. Archer was supposed to want to save the people and Phlox would be holding himself to the equivalent of a prime directive. (Not in so many words.)



    At the very least, this would have been an improvement, because we would have gotten something out of it other than a pat ending. Namely, some good conflict between Archer and Phlox that would have (had the writers made use of it that is) resonated throughout the following episodes. Something potentially interesting.
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would've made Archer more sympathetic to me and less of a bonehead. There's just no saving Phlox as he cheerfully writes in his letter his moral justification for letting all those people slowly die.

    But Trek really does bend the arm of coincidence with everyone always backing the captain no matter what they do. Not only does that deprive an episode of good drama, but it turns the characters into two dimensional caricatures and over long periods of exposure, into Chakotay.
     
  9. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not sure I like the original idea either.

    As I stated earlier, this episode was supposed to be a "prime directive" episode. Archer's action regardless of why didn't prove the need for one at all. For all we know, they found the cure next month.

    He should have helped, and the consequences should have been grim, Phlox's cure should have backfired or had side effects. (or something like that)
     
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah if they wanted to do a Prime Directive episode, Archer should've gone into a situation with all the good intentions in the world and it blew up in his face. Not a situation where you just do something morally questionable at best and cover it up with a directive empowering it.
     
  11. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Exactly. :bolian:
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have Phlox go over his head would have tied in with the theme that species who had been space faring for centuries saw humans as bumbling noobs as well.
     
  13. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    This sums up EVERY Prime Directive featured episode or movie.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ah comic sans.