D'deridex class Warbird vs Galaxy class

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by kgartm1185, Aug 8, 2013.

?

Which class of ship is more powerful?

This poll will close on Apr 17, 2027 at 9:34 PM.
  1. Galaxy class

    53.8%
  2. D'deridex class

    46.2%
  1. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Just to round up the few remaining onscreen facts about the mysterious Romulan ship, here's what I can recall:

    * Capable of accommodating at least one runabout internally ("Improbable Cause"/"The Die Is Cast") - something of a feat for the Galaxy, as even the giant saucertop shuttlebay would have problems with doorway height. Then again, the E-D did somehow transport three runabouts ("Emissary"). The main E-D shuttlebay does have what looks like overhead doors... Whereas the Warbird has openings in the lower wing, and the ship hovers over any small craft it intends to capture ("Mind's Eye", "Improbable Cause"). Only an offscreen Probert artwork directly associates these openings with a shuttlebay function, though.

    * Capable of firing photon torpedoes ("Contagion"; a ventral location is suggested by a brief blink of light).

    * Capable of firing disruptors (various eps, almost invariably from the bow emitter in the middle of the deflector - but "Contagion" features a nondescript emitter in the rather unlikely location of the underside of the top hull!). The originally intended emitters, round domes scattered around the model, are never seen firing anything, and must probably now be interpreted as something else altogether.

    * Bow disruptors can fire sustained or truncated beams or compact, almost spherical bolts. The latter are preferred, ever-so-slightly, in planetary bombardment in "The Die Is Cast".

    * A single pilot apparently controls the movements and armaments of the ship, or at least is the only one to verbally respond to the commanding officer's orders regarding those things. Bridge crew size is less than half a dozen in all versions of the bridge set, and sometimes only the CO is seated.

    * Apart from the bridge, features holding spaces for prisoners somewhere in the lower decks (as Garak and Odo escape such a facility and part ways only two decks up from the supposedly ventral shuttlebay that holds the runabout, even though Garak is heading for the bridge which supposedly is located somewhere higher up). Also features a comfortable lounge with big portholes for top-level chitchat, a separate dining hall without portholes for top officers, and at least one cargo bay.

    * Possibly not equipped with holodecks, as Admiral Jarok doesn't appear to have experience of such and is impressed by a fairly basic simulation of the Valley of Chula, and the one (unreal) Romulan holodeck from "Future Imperfect" is a planetside facility.

    Nothing particularly interesting there, and certainly nothing to establish one specific role or a range of roles for the vessel.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Redemption, in order to resupply the Dura sisters side of the Klingon civil war, the Romulans sent needed supply using just three D'deridexs. This implies that they have a fairly large amount of internal cargo space.

    :)
     
  3. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I feel like a scaled forward view would have solved the whole mass issue a page ago. I agree with Timo that 4.3 million metric tons is far too low for the D'Deridex if the Galaxy is 4.5 million.

    As for matching, I feel that they are indeed roughly an even match. I might give some edge to the D'Deridex simply that their ship is arguably more combat-oriented and they probably have more people and might have an edge on repairing stuff in battle.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    One might argue that the Romulans would design their ships with the specific goal of being better than their foreign counterparts. The Galaxy project seems to have been a very public one, with all sorts of lowlife enjoying access to detailed information about the design. Backstage sources also suggest it to have been a lengthy project, dating back to the 2350s. The D'deridex might have been designed with the sole goal of being better than the Galaxy (even if by a crucial smidgen), with impeccable Romulan intelligence work establishing that the Federation wasn't planning on anything bigger or more powerful in the near future.

    A more open society would just get entangled in a rat race. The standoffish Romulans could essentially keep their empire undefended for decades, skipping the construction of "intermediate" types while hiding behind the Potemkine facade of a thoroughly militarized star empire, so that they could pile up resources and unleash a superior design right when their foes had concluded their own supership construction work.

    The Royal Navy sort of feared something like this happening for the entire duration of their dominance of the seas - which is why they refused to be the first to develop any really powerful or advanced ships, knowing that if they did so, some enemy or another would simply build a smaller number of even more powerful and advanced ships on knowledge stolen from Britain, and attain local dominance that way. Better to remain mediocre in terms of equipment, but absolute cream of the cream in terms of training.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. kgartm1185

    kgartm1185 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    You've got the impression the Galaxy class has inferior technology to the D'deridex.:wtf:
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No. I think what he is saying is what many of us here are saying: the intent was that the two types of ships were roughly equals.
     
  7. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The Galaxy is my favorite ship but I voted for the D'deridex on this one. The only thing that I think gives it the edge is the cloaking device. Without it I would have definitely gone for the Galaxy!
     
  8. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    No? :confused: At least, with the exception of the cloaking device my answer would be no (obviously, the Romulan cloaking device is better than the Enterprise's non-existent cloaking device). My impression is they were roughly on par with each other with the differences not being significant enough to say one is inherently better.
     
  9. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And, just to reiterate, I'm completely certain Starfleet and the RSE have fairly disparate design ethos and development priorities. Romulans seem to favor surprise and overwhelming initial force, while Starfleet seems to fight a strategic battle of attrition.
     
  10. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    Size doesn't necessarily matter after a certain size where bigger doesn't necessarily mean better.

    The only time we ever got to see an actual battle was in Message In A Bottle, although it had 2 Defiant classes involved in it.
     
  11. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Two Defiants, one Akira...

    ...and Starfleet's pre-eminent new experimental three-in-one ship. Which reduced a D'deridex to debris with a single barrage. Great point.

    Who knows how much damage that D'Deridex had already taken.
     
  12. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    The point of that ship is to show how state of the art and awesome it apparently was, so it's probably not useful to compare to a Galaxy class, which was about 10 years old at that point (I was watching Journey's End recently where Wesley was being an unnecessary dick and he suggested that the whole technology of the ship was obsolete).
     
  13. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agree wholeheartedly - it was solely to make a point, and I meant that we don't know it was the Prometheus's volley that did her in, anyway.
     
  14. kgartm1185

    kgartm1185 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I don't think it was a single barrage, I think the D'deridex was already heavily damaged.
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always go back to Tin Man, where the Enterprise gets crippled in a matter of seconds by a Romulan ship in a single firing pass.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Very true. Although the exact definition of "crippled" there seems to be 70% loss of combat shields; otherwise, the ship seems operational, but Picard dare not confront the Romulans without the shields. The rest of the damage comes from Tin Man's own attack.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, Picard knows he doesn't have to risk his crews lives, or a war, to engage a ship that has just gained an upper hand. He doesn't even return fire.

    For all we know a return volley of phasers and torpedoes would have done equal damage to the Romulans, followed by a slog with dozens of dead until you have two wrecks.

    Good call by Picard, later, when Tin Man is at genuine risk, Picard does move to engage the Romulans.
     
  18. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Still, it was quick failure of the shields. Of course, we don't know how much damage the Enterprise could have done if they returned fire, but it felt unusually quick when it comes losing that much of their shields. That doesn't say anything about Romulan weapons compared to Federation weapons, though, just compared to other enemies and their weapons.
     
  19. kgartm1185

    kgartm1185 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    For one, the D'deridex didn't "cripple" the Enterprise, it just damaged it. Also, the Enterprise is capable of delivering just as much firepower as the D'deridex. That's pretty much been settled on.:)
     
  20. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Has it been settled on? I can't recall an episode where the Enterprise fired on a Warbird. I certainly agree that Tin Man isn't close to conclusive precisely because we don't know how much damage a Galaxy Class could do when returning fire, but that's not the same as saying that a Galaxy class definitely could do as much damage returning fire.