D'deridex-class Warbird Maneuverability

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Captain_Amasov, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    What happens to the singularity from a destroyed warbird? Freed from its containment, does it then anchor itself in space and therefore present a navigational hazard from that point on? Or does it gravitate towards the nearest gravity well (possibly causing the Hobus supernova, as someone suggested)? If the latter, wouldn't it be a death sentence to a planet to destroy a Romulan ship in orbit?
     
  2. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It might survive the destruction if it is self-sustaining, but then it really needed to be the mass of a star.
    I don't think they hurl around super dense black holes with warp speed.

    This is as much magic as other treknology (huh, my phone's spellchecker knows the word treknology! How awesome is that?).
    Personally I'd say the singularity decays very fast once released.
    The energy released then could be as dangerous as a warpcore breach, that's why they can't shut down the singularity once activated.

    Antimatter warpcores look really practical against that.
     
  3. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

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    It really does depend on how massive the singularity is, and why they're sometimes called 'forced' singularities. Small black holes naturally decay very rapidly, although one with 'only' a mountain's worth of mass can last for years. The main hazard isn't that they'll be a navigational hazard, it's that the last few (hundred) thousand tons will go up in a blink of an eye, easily comparable to any warp core breach. You'd want to either refill them before that happens, probably using specialized facilities that can properly aim lasers or particle streams at this smaller-than-an-atom singularity, or make sure it happens out in interstellar space.
     
  4. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    It also occurs to me that if you can somehow hit a warbird with some kind of awesome electromagnetic pulse, you can get them to lose "containment" of this singularity, which would then begin to consume the warbird from the inside out.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably so. But similar pulses might collapse UFP antimatter containment fields; it's not a vulnerability specific to the Romulan design.

    Interestingly, when the Breen hit the Axis of Alpha fleet with the energy-damping weapon at Chin'toka, ships went dark and motionless. They did not explode immediately out of containment failure, regardless of whether they had UFP, Klingon or Romulan power systems...

    Granted, the ships didn't lose all power: we saw internal lighting (at least the emergency sort) work just fine. Nor did hearts stop beating or brains stop thinking. Clearly, the weapon only affected certain types of power flow, and the starship powerplant protection systems probably either had an inherently resilient type of power arrangement, or were built with multiple redundant power sources of which at least one was resilient to the Breen weapon.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I want to say that it was mentioned in Tin Man, but not positive.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Tin Man" featured this dialogue:

    And later, when one Romulan ship outflies the Enterprise at warp anyway and then strafes her at impulse:

    The first dialogue specifically refers to the interstellar speed of the Romulans. The second isn't quite so explicit, but the context is clear anyway: Riker is incredulous that the Romulans could have arrived at Beta Stromgren so quickly, not that they would be flying at high impulse speed in the actual engagement.

    Interesting how the Romulan ships are "cruisers" to Data, but "warbirds" to Worf...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Has it ever been stated on screen (or theorized offscreen...) why there's a big honking gap between the double hulls of a warbird? Based on the size of the warbird overall as posted in the DS9TM, you could just about fit a Galaxy-class ship inside there. I remember when I first heard of the quantum singularity powering it, I envisioned the singularity suspended in the middle of that open space between the hulls. The TNG "Timescape" episode showed Picard, et al, looking into some space where they saw little creatures sucking up power and causing problems, but I didn't think he was looking into the singularity itself.
     
  9. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always figured those warbirds are build to intimidate and if they stuffed everything into a compact hull it would be singnificantly smaller.
    Basically the peacock strategy.

    I didn't get the impression that the wings contained many vital system outside of power conduits for the nacelles. The rest looks like mostly armor and weapon mounts.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not onscreen. Neither has there ever been an onscreen explanation for why there's a big honking gap between the nacelles of the classic Starfleet starship. At least the Romulans made some use of all that wasted space by installing a second set of pylons...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Captain_Amasov

    Captain_Amasov Captain Captain

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    I got the impression that the Breen energy dissipator was designed not to completely deprive a starship of all power, as I'd imagine they'd like to capture the ship and/or crew. The Breen have been known to use slave labor in certain instances.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Breen have been given some pretty conflicting attributes in their backstory, but this much seems to be nicely supported, yes.

    In "Hero Worship", the Breen are said to practice boarding attacks. In "Indiscretion", we learn of their slave-capturing antics. The energy weapon is a pretty natural continuation of that story, although one wonders why this ideal piracy weapon never became infamous amongst its victims before the big war. Would the Breen have had enough discipline not to use it for piracy? They certainly didn't completely silence all their victims, as some rumors of their habits and methods circulated in the UFP.

    This would suggest the weapon was a new addition to the Breen arsenal of piracy and boarding attacks in the late stages of the Dominion War...

    I wonder if any of the ships at Chin'toka were boarded and captured?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Hando

    Hando Commander Red Shirt

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    ^Quite questionable is also, why was everybody so surprised by the technology.

    After all, Starfleet already encountered similar technology in the past: Tholians (2150s mirror and 25th century prime -> so 23rd prime could already have it), Whale Probe (23rd century) and Menthar (aceton assimilators in 24th century).

    Although these could be as different as Cloaking technologies are: Suliban, Xyrilians, Romulan, Klingon, Starfleet ...
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Good point. It might also be that the Federation doesn't give its regular opponents quite as much credit as it gives certain upper league cultures and entities. The Menthar trap was much slower and depended on a whole asteroid field full of equipment, while the Whale Probe simply was a superentity, possibly not worth escalating against in a cost-benefit analysis even when the benefit side includes survival of your civilization...

    There are surprising superweapons in the arsenals of the regular foes, though. Klingons can, if given a few days of absolute freedom to prepare, make a planet's atmosphere go up in flames. Romulans have this AQS power technology. Son'a have subspace weapons... It probably pays to train for no-win scenarios!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Lee Enfield

    Lee Enfield Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'd like to add, that the Breen weapon might be a progression to a prior existing technology.
    The Breen might not have been able to refine their technology until they teamed up with the Dominion. The first model might have been of a more supportive nature to pirate operations - perhaps to cripple some of the secondary energy systems to gain access to the ships transporters ...
    Starfleet Security Systems(TM)("To your polished new Starship we might even add a fith failure safety.") might have been to advanced to effectively have been sobotaged by the first model. Thus, Starfleet Intelligence didn't care much.
    ...till the Dominion came.


    But, with all we know, Starfleet Intelligence might have undertaken investigation in all the known cases. Just off-screen.
     
  16. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just hope the Romulans don't come across a certain ships artificial sigularity.

    "Hmm..this says 'Event Horizon'"
     
  17. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    That's okay. Neither does the Nebula.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    At least all Nebula models and renderings have nozzles in the proper places, even if they are on the small side and aren't always lit...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Might've read me posting it. Andy once told me he never had time to finish all the elevations of the ship, so he never drew the aft view and when Greg Jein built the model and didn't think to add impulse engines. They were supposed to be in a vertical slot on the back end, if I recall what Andy told me.

    The one thing Andy DID forget was a nav deflector on the Ferengi ship. He did put one on the Warbird, even though the VXF people insisted on using it as a weapon.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Creating a fancy sort of consistency. Cardassian ships also fire their main guns from the deflector centerpoint of their (this time Sternbach-designed) capital ships. Which shouldn't be a wonder, considering how often our Starfleet heroes utilize the deflector as a weapon!

    It does make intuitive sense that this device would be a power or range booster for whatever is fired from its center; perhaps some VFX people even bought into the backstage speculation that death rays don't work at warp, and thought that since the deflector does, the combination would be advantageous.

    Sometimes it's a good thing that alien starships have alien features, too; I would have been quite happy with a ship that doesn't fire its beams from obvious beam emitters. Sternbach designed the Cardassian ship with identifiable if alien weapons emitter pyramids, some of which eventually did see use in "Caretaker" and the like. The Romulan vessel never did fire anything from the dome-like features Probert put in for the purpose, now did it?

    Timo Saloniemi