DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    We have?

    Could you cite some actual examples (not your own opinion or personal supposition) of this happening?
    Perhaps because I'm actually not doing this, but just approaching the Finches on Wonder Woman with an open mind and no previous bias. No one's knocking what Azzarello did, but as you said in an earlier post, it wasn't everyone's cup of tea.
     
  2. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Thus why it's being changed to more conventional Wonder Woman stories. House of UIster is pretty bang on with his statements as far as I'm concerned.


    I gave their first issue a shot and found it meh and I went in giving them the full benefit of the doubt and chance to impress me. I still may give Meredith the whole first arc but so far nothing she did made me say continue to get this. Nothing hooked me as Azzy and Chiang's first issue did right off the bat.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    I felt the exact opposite. After a few years of reading Wonder Woman pre-nu52, I dropped it after Azzarello & Chiang's first issue and there was nothing in various previews since that tempted me to come back. A little of the Greek god stuff goes a very long way with me, and concentrating on that turned me off. I've been waiting for the book to incorporate more of the DCU, so the change is welcome.
     
  4. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fantasy and mythology are the essential parts of her book. It's in all the major runs not just her biggest writers like Perez or Rucka but Jimenez, Ross even Simone. Being tired of mythology would be like saying you want less crime stories in Batman or science fiction in Superman. The mythology and fantasy is what Wonder Woman is. Maybe she isn't what you are expecting if one of her major story elements turns you off to the character.

    1) The previous post-crisis version of Teen Titans. The writer for the Post-Geoff Johns run specifically calls out his editors for messing up his run and the editors are the same people we have running these books.

    2) The creative turnovers on Justice League Dark (4 writers in two years).

    3) Delays on Forver Evil due to Finch not meeting deadlines and then the editor covering for him by claiming the writer unexpectedly handing in more script despite it being solicited for a long time that the issue would be double sized.

    Why? The writer has only one writing credit to her name and almost little in the way of writing experience since she is actually Finch's business manager. I find it strange you are calling me out for bias when much of this isn't my opinion, but established facts that you are ignoring and then have the gall for calling me out for having "bias". I hadn't realized trying to look at someone's previous work record suddenly made me biased against them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  5. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The mythology really isn't an essential part of her book, it's part of her background, but it isn't something her whole book solely depends on.
    Nah, there are many things that Wonder Woman is. First and foremost, she is a superhero in our modern times though.
    Um, she was exactly what I expected in the many years I read the book earlier, so that's an incorrect assumption.
    And?
    So that's the only book ever to have creative turnovers? There are some books that have creative teams that only last 6 to 12 issues these days.
    Delays due to either artists and writers falling behind do happen, even for solicited books.
    Why not? I have no reason to think it'll be automatically bad.
    You really haven't presented any "facts," just your own opinion on things. So, yeah, it's accurate to call it your bias. To be fair, though, it's also accurate to say I'm biased towards a more DCU-involved Wonder Woman book.
    A bias is when you have a pre-established like or dislike about something or someone, based on your own views and values. You have a negative view of the new creative team based on how you view their previous work (or lack of it). I don't have that here as I don't know the writer or the editors from Adam and don't know how they will ultimately be on Wonder Woman, although I'm not disliking what I see so far. That could change in time, sure, but that's not the case presently.
     
  6. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I forgot to post this yesterday. There have been rumours of "changes" of some kind coming post-Convergence and teases that things won't be the same after the move is completed in June. I am thinking that we will get "Darkseid War" sometime in late June or July...but there are other things planned. This is among them. Allegedly of course :)

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/12/marc-silvestri-batman-comic-means-dc/
     
  7. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Back to Pre-Flashpoint? ;)
     
  8. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Can you elaborate. This article means nothing to me...
     
  9. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    if only.
     
  10. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You are completely wrong. The mythology and fantasy aspects are very essential to any Wonder Woman story. Look at the big Wonder Woman stories such as Rucka's Hiketeia or Wonder Woman League of One they are all using the mythology to interpret her character just like science fiction is used as a method of exploring Superman's character.

    And absolute wrong. This may have been true for the Silver Age, but post-Perez (and even Post-Flashpoint) this opinion has been completely invalidated. You should at least imo try and engage with the current material before trotting out some misplaced retro-nostalgia.

    Just seems to me that you have been reading reprints and haven't been engaging in the stories if you think Wonder Woman is a superhero first. It's an absolutely bizarre opinion.

    4 writers in two years for this type of ongoing is considered a very high rate. Almost all of the time that means there is something wrong going on behind the scenes.

    None of which justified the editor lying about it and throwing the writer under the bus to cover for Finch who has a reputation for not meeting deadlines.

    But I don't. I don't even know the guy, I'm just pointing out that he is a bad editor, which we have seen time and time again. I'm certainly making a value judgement against his work, but that hardly constitutes bias. You just seem eager to pull me down to your level, which I do perceive as certainly over favoring a creative team that just doesn't have the experience to deliver for the book and favor an outdated stylistic interpretation of the character which you seem to favor.

    I wouldn't have a problem with the interpretation of WW as a Superhero if there was a competent creative team who knew how to write the character, but there isn't.
     
  11. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    @theenglish....Rich is saying that in addition to the Silvestri Bat-book we could get several other new titles with various high profile writers from Hollywood, and from web comics, as they have done with the titles that he mentioned in the article. I'm not sure that it was hard to read or understand honestly.

    There is basically a whole bunch of new stuff that will be coming down the pipe in the coming weeks and months as we continue to learn what DC is going to do when they complete the move in June.
     
  12. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, I'm completely right. As I said, it's an aspect of her book like Krypton is to Superman, but it isn't what she is all about
    Nope, it's absolutely right. To claim otherwise is simply denial or just focusing on a small part of her.
    Because you're mistaken of all this.
    Or just not having found the right team for the book. It happens.
    That goes right back to what I said above about delays. Issues--if not out right falling outs--between editors, writers, and artists also do happen.
    Sure, you do. If you didn't, you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince me that the new team was bad. In fact, you wouldn't have responded to my initial post at all if you didn't.
    But it does.
    That's simply false and more than a little of you crying victim after starting this.
    Says you. Being that you're speaking for yourself here, your personal take on the new creative team doesn't hold weight with me.
     
  13. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ He's actually speaking for a number of fans who share the same opinion that obviously differs from yours

    It's clear the two of you disagree vehemently about this so perhaps instead of going in circles we can just go onto another topic. Again House of Ulster isn't wrong, you simply disagree with his takes which is completely fine but he's not exactly stating false information in his posts.
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    That's what opinions are. Different views on the same subject. Not every fan likes the same things and that's true with any intellectual property. Not every fan liked the previous run of Wonder Woman just as there were those that didn't like the run before that.
    When it comes to there having been some behind-the-scenes issues and squabbles between earlier creative teams, perhaps, but other stuff is really just his opinion. And stuff he said about me and how I think is totally false.
     
  15. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What you said is completely irrelevant. Regardless of Krypton, the science fiction based stories are his bread and butter. Superman Unchained, the Morrison Action Comics, the Pak Action Comics, Lobdell's Superman, Johns' Action Comics and Superman, Cornell's Action Comics or Roberson's Superman . These are just a few examples they don't have to revolve around Krypton, but they are grounded in a science fiction based worldview. The same with Wonder Woman except with fantasy/mythology. Azzarello, Rucka, Perez, Simone, Jimenez even Ross they all mine mythology and fantasy

    So I guess you missed the last thirty years of WW comics.:guffaw:
    So delays justify throwing your writer under the bus to justify why your artist can't meet deadlines. I really wouldn't want to work for you if you want to champion such a dishonest set of ethics.
     
  16. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, it very much is relevant, despite how much you may think otherwise. It's just one aspect of her, not the totality of her.
    Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.
    :rofl:
    If it's any consolation, I wouldn't hire you anyway because of your false comments about me. But I see conflicts--even ugly ones--between creative teams as things that do unfortunately happen from time to time. As in real life, not everyone sees eye-to-eye on things and not everyone gets treated fairly. I think what's more important is what happens next on a particular book, even though it will guarantee not to please everyone no matter what.
     
  17. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So I checked out the first issue of Tomasi's "Superman/Wonder Woman" and while I didn't like it off the bat I will give it a chance because Tomasi usually takes a bit of time before he gets into the nitty gritty of things.

    Any thoughts as to who "Wonder Star" is? I think he could 52'Verse Magog before he assumes the Magog identity since he's going to be appearing soon.

    Justin Jordan has decided to leave New Guardians. I find it amusing DC decided not to tell anyone that he was leaving so he had to do it himself on his facebook page. Didn't they just hire a new PR guy? Isn't this supposed to be what they're for?

    http://www.newsarama.com/22919-dc-s-green-lantern-new-guardians-writer-exits.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
  18. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I finally skipped through the last dozen issues of Batman Eternal. It's a decent story, but it just feels like very little happens in each individual issue. It's all very spaced out. I am very curious to see who the mystery Big Bad is going to be though. I also liked the secret past of Jason Bard. The entire mystical threat to Arkham just felt like a huge waste of time, though. Corrigan becomes the Spectre and instantly defeats the villain in a single page!
     
  19. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  20. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    I just caught up myself and now Arkham Manor finally makes more sense. Issue #1 was released before the events in Batman Eternal that lead into it were published. I hate it when they do that. I agree the mystical aspect was kind of a waste of time, but overall I have been enjoying Eternal quite a bit.

    This is actually my first exposure to Hush since I took quite a long break from comics. Where is the best place to start catching up on him? Batman Hush?

    I'm not all that impressed by all the variants they put out, but I did quite enjoy the Bombshell variants. I even got the Supergirl one as a poster.