DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If they're mirrored then you're probably right.

    You know, one thing that building her emergence around a battle scene accomplishes for the character is that she's motivated to discover immediately what her new abilities are. I have to admit that I was paying a lot more attention to her internal monologue than to the details of the fight. And having this as her first experience on Earth is likely to bias her quite a bit.

    I'm also curious about her father, and hope that her memories of him have some ongoing relevance to her character and that he was a character in the fullest sense. Her parents in previous versions are pretty much standard-issue Krytonian futuroids, aren't they? I mean, back when I was paying attention (I admit again, it was a while ago) the main way you could tell one Authoritative Kryptonian Male Scientist from another was by the symbol the artist drew on their shirts and whatever the colorist did with their hair. Evidently succession to leadership on the Science Council or whatever is based on a pattern-baldness-and-beard-growing competition that's only open to men of seventy years or older.
     
  2. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Her parents were actually developed a bit in the previous iteration especially her mother who had become the leader of the short lived New Krypton.
     
  3. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :D

    It depends on the continuity for Zor-El. His earliest appearances had him as a "scientist," like his bro, which of course at the time meant "capable of doing any damn thing the plot required, and lots of stuff that it didn't."

    I think in the newer stuff he was an artist. Which I thought was a cool idea, in that it was a counterpoint to Jor-El being a scientist, although 1)they put him in the ugliest super-person related costume ever (including, including, 90s Superboy and Electric Superman which I actually liked but anyway) and 2)the stories involving him were fucked up beyond all recognition. Oh, until he came back. Then he was fine. Then he died again when Reactron or possibly Metallo shot him while making jokes about raping Supergirl.

    Hey, that's something else good about this: none of the antagonists suggest raping Kara! One of them does call her "honey" which is dismissive and sort of a weird thing to say, and would ring truer from 11Bs than the hardened killdozers these men (and maybe also women) must be to be entrusted with highly advanced Roman numeral suits, but at least they don't talk about having sex with her beaten-unconscious body, which happened a lot back in the old universe because where would a a mid-oughties superhero comic be without implied or actual rape?

    Nowhere, that's where.

    Oh, and the painted nails are still bothering me. That's lazy. Kryptonians wear gloves anyway. John Byrne said so.

    Anyway, my guess is that Zor-El's still an artist, one that deals in the creation of virtual reality experiences. This is a fine idea. I know, because when I was brainstorming "How would I reboot Supergirl?" that's what I came up with. Except my version had more talking. Lots and lots more talking because that's what makes superhero comics great; the talking. Also, Brainiac. Brainiac makes superhero comics great, so he'd be there and very square.
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that would make sense. I assume that's how they explained Kara actually growing up in some sort of simulation of Krypton after it went BOOM?

    What Kara needs next is to meet up with Willow and Giles and Cordelia. Xander is optional; he annoyed me. :lol:

    It is rather specific, but of course just about everything that distinguishes women from men in the way we present ourselves is a matter of culture and there's no reason that any of it should be replicated even on a world where the folks look completely human. Kara wears her hair long; Kara wears a skirt; Kara colors her nails. It's all just conventionalization to make the character attractively "feminine" to the average reader, in the same way that Superman is big and ripped despite not having been physically challenged by gravity since he was a kid.
     
  5. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I liked Xander fine but always questioned why he was there. I was never a huge Buffy fan (ex was), but I understand this was something of a running joke.

    One of the things I'm curious about is that the Mikes said Supergirl would have a supporting cast. I sort of think that's a mistake, but nothing to be done about it; you need people for the talking.

    The problem here is that--and I'll have to read it to know for sure--Clark doesn't seem to have a supporting cast. So the obvious support structure for his cousin is entirely missing. I guess Lana Lang could be in it, but that always struck me as sort of odd--"Hey, girl I fooled around with in high school, how would you like to be a mother/older sister figure to my weird alien cousin?"

    I know. It sucks. It should have some sort of context and character rationale, though. Black Canary wears makeup? Fine. Wonder Woman? Pushing it. Alien? Bizarre. But in comics women wear makeup when they sleep, when they wear masks, when they've just been shot to a strange new world across the fathomless depths space...

    'Course, I find it bizarre as hell in Star Trek too. It's just off-putting to me. Women still look different (and attractive women still look attractive, if that's important) without makeup. It's pandering, I guess.

    Fun fact: Evey Hammond didn't wear makeup for the largest part of V For Vendetta. It's considered a seminal work, and has sold jillions of copies. Just saying.

    ETA: It also helps that I'm probably permanently stuck in a Byrne Krypton mindset, where no one fucks, and thus has no use for sexualizing themselves (but who knows? those overcomplicated headdresses might be like clear plastic heels on Krypton). An affirmatively asexual protagonist? Well, I find the concept interesting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  6. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since she doesn't know anything about humans that could be darkly funny.

    Supporting characters: "Please we don't live in cages!"

    Supergirl: "what sort of owner would I be if I let you monkeys wander around uncared for?"


    Or maybe an issue where Superman had to explain to a baffled Supergirl why eating human flesh is prohibited.

    Sadly I doubt they will go that way....
     
  7. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "I find the one moon to be displeasing, and I shall correct it. The planets you call 'Mars' and 'Mercury' aren't doing much, are they?"

    Supergirl: Fucks up the World
    would be a fun comic. Limited potential, but I'd buy it.

    P.S.: upon review even Byrne drew Lara with lipstick (tasteful, not too flashy, but still).
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Women look different and attractive without anything, of course.

    "Pandering" is one way to look at it, but of course the presentation of people in just about all popular art is pandering to the wish-fulfillment fantasies of the audience. The heroes and villains of superhero comics in particular have no more direct relationship to what we might expect such creatures to be like "in reality" than characters in pornographic fiction do to human beings.

    Tight inter-title character continuity is probably a lot to ask here, given how this relaunch is being handled, but when I saw Supes hovering over Supergirl there, speaking Kryptonian it struck me that he's looking at a mirror image of himself from the era that Morrison's depicting right now in Action - and that's only five or six years in his past. Supergirl is impulsive and undisciplined, discovering what she can do, and is real unlikely to immediately see the point of any human institutions or customs that don't satisfy her personal prejudices. The difference is that he at least had the understanding of his surroundings and identification with us that comes with growing up here, and she doesn't. I'd love to see Superman's interaction with her reflect his eventual awareness of what he's gone through and where she's at.

    Superboy, now that I think of it, is sort of the third angle in this triangle - he knows no other creatures than human beings (and is seeing us at our most unpleasantly manipulative and amoral if not our absolute worst), has grown up nowhere (and N.O.W.H.E.R.E., interestingly enough) because attempts to trick him with a virtual reality life as Kara (presumably, at this point) was have been failures, and he so far seems to lack a native capacity for empathy at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  9. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Really liked Supergirl. Not a whole lot happened storywise, but it still did a great job getting inside her head and making us sympathize with her situation. I also love how truly alien she seems to be to this world.

    And of course the art was just fantastic. Wasn't sure about the costume at first, but now that I've seen it in action it totally works. It's girly, but unlike the last one doesn't make her look like some bimbo cheerleader. lol

    Batman I liked. Wonder Woman seemed promising, but it's too early to get a good read on. SHE seems fairly interesting and badass, but all that crap with the gods and amazonians never interested me before, and this looks like it'll probably go down that same road.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I gather that the snippets of dialogue like "I don't talk to fish" are her super-hearing kicking in, but isn't it convenient then that everything she hears from afar are remarks ascribable to DC characters we can recognize? It's not like she overhears some unidentified twelve year-old shrieking at his mother in Hunan dialect or something. :lol:
     
  11. Dar70

    Dar70 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True. But they both have interacted with the other characters so there is much that is not rewritten. Still dc made it out as a reboot jumping on point for new readers. I expected ret-conned origins to show up in all issue 1's. Instead we just got issues like any other month. They are all in the middle of stories.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You dont have to start off every reboot with an origin. 52 origins in one month might get a little tedious.

    Even the books that are moving forward with out any obvious "rebooting" are free to ignore what they want of the past. Its not that hard not to mention "Big Event X" or Issue #xxx ever again.
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They made it clear early on that they wouldn't be telling new versions of most characters' origins in the #1s. That's one reason they decline to call it a reboot.
     
  14. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    @Myaschiev (I think i got your name wrong this time!) they seem to be doing something interesting with the aliens in the DCU 52 Verse this time around. The comment regarding seeing Kori for the first time from that soldier who saw the little kid's cell phone pic of her would indicate at least to me that no one has seen an Tamaranean...or at least not seen one in a while. Maybe wide spread contact has been limited in this continuity...via some kind of Green Lantern quarantine on Earth? I'm reaching incredibly high here but otherwise I got nothing...lol. Adam Strange could be part of a future wave??
     
  15. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why bother?

    The Andy Diggle Adam Strange story was the best reboot of the character since the horrible Kubert stuff.
     
  16. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  17. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They did throw some Russian in. Ubil bol'shye 20 chyem povstantsev. If I'm correct, that's "...Has killed more than twenty insurgents." They could've done more.

    I'm imagining the idea of J.H. Williams handling that scene and it's beautiful. :adore:

    You know, it's funny, I noticed somewhere in some comments section someone talking about how Supergirl has "different powers than Superman" because her scream is weaponizable. I thought that was a weird comment; Superman can do that too (e.g., "For the Man Who Has Everything," where he deafens Jason Todd and sets up the brutal scene in "Death in the Family" where he doesn't hear the Joker coming). He doesn't do Black Canary tactics because he release gamma rays from his eyes, and screaming at Lex Luthor is is redundant and collateral damagy.

    I sorta like it. It's kind of weird that the Green Lanterns, historically, don't seem to ever do anything until a threat's right on top of a planet. On the other hand, I guess there's no such thing as a blue water space navy.

    I thought people liked the Paul Pope Wednesday Comics thing.

    You know what I found offensive about that part? It's overwritten. "I'm free. [beat] What about you?" And scene. We're done.

    I mean, it's not like I read this thing. Maybe it sucks even worse in context. I've seen the phrase "sex slave" pop up in chatter; I'm only vaguely familiar with the character; but I remember in R.E.B.E.L.S. she killed some sex slavers, and it made Vril Dox express some kind of emotion, but I forget what. Probably anger and frustration, insofar as we're talking about Vril Dox here.

    Also, I've never mentioned this, but George Perez drew Starfire as kind of horrifying, didn't he? Seriously, imagine that in real life. It's like a wide-awake nightmare. Those glowing, pupilless, monstrously large eyes... the eyes of a predator, or a demon, perhaps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  18. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's a smart idea, not to start with all new origins or retelling origins for EVERYONE. It would be weird for everyone to start at the same time. In the middle of things is more dynamic.

    But, still, it's a reboot. They are trying to have it both ways by not calling it such.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, Starfire's people evolved from catlike creatures.
     
  20. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not to mention she has 70's/80's style/fashion but yeah I was never fond of that look for her.
     

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