DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Fist McStrongpunch

    Fist McStrongpunch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was heavily implied that Superman and Wonder Woman getting together erased Booster and future Booster from the timeline and is something that needs to be put right. There is a story they're doing here.
     
  2. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Comics is a niche fandom. The mainstream population's opinions are closer to OSC's. Look at all the support Chick-fil-a got. It'll be the same for his movie.
     
  3. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I think you're probably wrong.

    Yeah, I saw those. But, aren't they showing that chains can't really hold him? So, again, he's always been unchained.

    I know it's semantics. But, it's just such a silly title....


    That's where I am. I don't want my money to be used to prevent others from getting equal rights. Maybe if he wasn't sitting the board of an organization ACTIVELY pursuing discrimination... but...

    I don't know, more than 50% of this country supports gay marriage, so, mainstream is not closer to OSC's opinion. Whether or not the general population is motivated enough, or cares enough to not show up to the movie is an entirely different question.
     
  4. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, Johns is ok on GL, and I love his JSA and Justice Society runs, so he did have the ability to write good stuff, he's just devolved as a writer the same way James Robinson has (they were both good writers, now they suck, although Johns does have the ability to write good stuff at times, like GL, while Robinson is just terrible most of the time). As for current writers at DC, I like Batwoman, Demon Knights, Legion of Superheros (but NOT Legion Lost), the GL books (although Red Lanterns isn't great, just ok), so the people who write them are obviously decent.

    World's Finest is also entertaining, but not on the same level because, while its good, its far inferior to the versions of PG and Huntress from the old DCU, especially PG, who is my third favorite superhero (after the original Captain Marvel and She-Hulk) but is now a complete slut who literally gets what she wants by screwing (and outright theft). Still, she atleast still has something of a personality to go with her inability to close her legs, unlike Sexfire...I mean Starfire. Huntress is ok, but not great. Earth 2 is an ok read, although I don't like any of the changes to the heroes. The government being evil (trying to capture alan/jay/Hawkgirl, hiring the homicidally insane Mr. Terrific, etc) is also annoying me, as is Atom and Sandman being government puppets (threatening jay's Mom officially makes Sandman evil). I have no idea why Soloman Grundy now wears a dress (and even if it is technically something besides a dress, I don't think anyone can defend his new look as being better than the classic grundy, and Jay Garrick is in the same boat, although his is slughtly more tolerable, since atleast it doesn't have a skirt). I also prefer Alan scott with a wife and kids, so I just don't like this Alan. I'm fine with gay characters, I just like old Alan better. Plus, the whole dead fiancee thing is a bit annoying, too.

    Besides those books, the rest is completely worthless. I read JL and JLA just to laugh at how horribly bad they are. Its funny that johns can even ruin Stargirl, a character he created. I can't wait until the storyline where she shaves her head to fit in with her celebrity friends. Or, maybe she'll get drunk and start making racist comments. I'm sure its coming soon. Its also hilarious how Cyborg has had almost no character development at all since JL #1 or 2. He's basically Batman's walking, talking second utility belt. Black Vulcan in superfriends was a deeper character. Of course, the ruining of Captain Marvel (my favorite superhero) is my most hated thing in the New 52, and it happens to be part of JL sometimes, so thats painful to read. Still, I feel the need to stay up on how badly DC destroys my favorite superhero. Also, JLD sucks. Of course my favorite hero on the JLD team, Zatanna, went from being an awesome magician to literally a stripper who dresses like Chriss Angel. Of the big three, superman is borign, Wonder Woman is stupid and rehashing the old "Wonder Woman is from an island and doesn't know the real world" thing that all the horrible WW writers did, but this time with some berserker rage built in. Scott Snyder is the second worse Batman writer after frank miller, but atleast All Star Superman wouldn't make me fall asleep like Court of Owls did.

    So, to summarize, I like a few DC books, but most of it is garbage and the best books are the ones that have basically remained unchanged (GL and Batwoman). Demon Knights is the best of the books created for the New 52, but it literally could have worked in the old DCU with probably no changes whatsoever, so I don't count it as a good DCU book. I used to evenly like Marvel and DC (with maybe a slight leaning towards Marvel), now Marvel wins, hands down. I still love a lot of DC characters, but I like the real versions, not the ones written by the brainless idiots who are such a big part of DC. I liked a lot of books right before the reboot. The new 52 was just a poorly thought out reboot, that didn;t make one improvement. The great stuff retained the status quo from Pre 52, the some of the good new stuff could have been done before, and the rest of the good is ok but far inferior to the old. The rest is just bad, much of it (like JL) making early Image look almost competent.

    I was mostly joking, although DC is almost dark enough to do it. Its already channeling the spirit of early Image, so it wouldn't be too surprising to see something like this.
     
  5. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    DC is DARK? Maybe some of the Joker story... but... DARK?
     
  6. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By dark, I mean more like the grim and gritty Image stuff. Where the idea of dark/mature was idiotic plots, people with "dark"/gritty personalities (90% of the new 52, including Wonder Woman and Superman) and stuff like that. It seems like every hero will do stuff that just doesn't fit (Wonder Woman is so casual about murder/klilling she makes a klingon look like a pacifist, Warrior =/= casual killing), or just acts like I'd expect an early Image character to. They also have costumes that are just as stupid, although for different reasons than the Image heroes (for the most part, not counting Liefeld's books). I didn't mean dark like horror/gory/disturbing stuff (although several titles are disturbing, but not because they are that kind of dark :shifty: ).
     
  7. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    DC is hardly dark. There are things that I haven't liked about the relaunch, and I've been a pretty consistent critic throughout the thread as most of you know who have been following it, but Kirk55555 makes it out to be absolutely garbage. That's hardly the case with it at all. Is it perfect? Not in the least? Has DC made mistakes? Sure...but there are still some great books out there. People have mentioned them many times in this thread.
     
  8. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^To kirk55555

    I think you're reading a different DCU than I am. You should, though, check out Wonder Woman's solo book. It's great.
     
  9. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I read the first six issues. It was garbage, especially the art (the greek gods have never looked stupider). The story isn't the worst of the New 52, but it was bad. I also HATE the "Wonder Woman is from an island, so she gets confused about the real world" stuff, and lets not forget her making Klingon's look like teletubbies. There have been much worse runs, but the current one is pretty worthless. I have read a lot of the new 52 books for atleast a few issues, and most of it is bad. I don't hate everything I don't read, but everything I don't read or hate is just garbage. Some had potential (JL Dark might have kept my attention if it didn't get boring, and make Zatanna into a stripper) but it didn't live up to it. Some were just offensively bad (like Teen Titans and Red Hood and The Outlaws, which I actually stayed with out of curiosity much longer than I should have). Overall, DC is easily putting out the worst mainstream comics ever right now. The old DC had bad stuff, like all companies do. But, the bad stuff they are putting out now is beating even the worst of the old stuff. Well, ok, nobody beats All Star Batman as worst Batman, but I've always though Miller's Batman stories were horrible anyway, so it would be unfair to compare even Snyder's bad stuff to the things Frank miller has turned out, especially in recent years.
     
  10. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I have no idea what you're talking about... what's the teletubbie thing?

    And I get the idea that someone from a culture that might be isolated or different not understanding something in another culture. My wife is from India, that happened frequently when she came to America.

    And again, we obviously see things VERY differently. It's not garbage. Not even close.
     
  11. OdoWanKenobi

    OdoWanKenobi Admiral Admiral

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    You lost me completely. :wtf:

    Cliif Chiang's art on Wonder Woman has been nothing short of absolutely gorgeous.
    None of that has been in Wonder Woman at all. There was some of it in Justice League but that was before Lee's departure and the subsequent improvement of the book.

    Ok, I will actually agree with you on those. Both of those book have been pretty terrible. Starfire in particular has been almost ruined. Tim is a favorite character of mine, and I really think he deserves a better book than the wretched Teen Titans. Remember when that was practically DC's flagship book? What the hell happened?
     
  12. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I stopped reading WW because the story wasn't grabbing me after 5 issues or so, but I'll agree the art looked terrible. Not attractive at all.
     
  13. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I understand that Chiang's style isn't in the current vogue, but to call it terrible mystifies me. He's solid artist with a good sense of design and storytelling.
     
  14. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In 1991, these same people would have called Bruce Timm an artistic hack.
     
  15. OdoWanKenobi

    OdoWanKenobi Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, look at that ridiculous art-deco style. Everything looks far too simple, and the blending of different time periods just destroys any credibility.. Geez, it's the 90s, people. Learn to use a computer. :p
     
  16. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    uh... what?
     
  17. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    i'll stick up for WW. i love the story and the artwork. you could say its simple, but it really fits with the story IMO.
     
  18. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Wonder Woman" is one of the best things to come out of the relaunch, and Cliff Chiang is the unsung hero of that book :) People in this thread know I've come to enjoy his work a great deal :) Not to mention that Azzy has slowly building a grand story. It fast has become my favourite book of the New 52.
     
  19. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting that you feel that way because I've been drawn more to the New 52 and have almost completely abandoned Marvel. This change was happening before the reboots. Marvel was losing my interest after Dark Reign/Siege concluded with the half-ass Fear Itself and other major events that just didn't grab my interest.

    I read a good swath of the New 52 at first and while I've stopped reading most of those books, that is in part to financial and space issues, more so than lack of interest. I like the new Wonder Woman book. I think the take on the Greek gods is different, creative. Something that I've never seen before. I'm not completely on board with the take on Wonder Woman, however I can't say that the books are not compelling and if I had the time/space/money I would continue reading to see where it was all going.

    Though I do agree with you that some of the New 52 books aren't good. I couldn't get into the artwork or stories for Teen Titans or Red Hood. The Flash has been boring to me. I think Superman, up until the H'el arc at least, hasn't been a satisfying reading experience. I didn't like the disconnect in time between Action and Superman. A little Grant Morrison goes a long way and his Action lost my interest. I thought the Superman book was hampered by whatever Morrison was cooking up in Action.

    Overall I think Green Lantern, Aquaman, Batman, Batwing, Batwoman, Batman & Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Suicide Squad, I Vampire, Green Lantern Corps have largely been enjoyable (the one's I've read anyway). Also the first arc of Animal Man made me interested in a character I had zero interest in prior. I also liked the first Demon Knights arc. And Jeff Lemire seems to have a good thing going with Green Arrow now, at least from what I could tell from #17.
     
  20. Mike Farley

    Mike Farley Commodore Commodore

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    I only read the first issue of Wonder Woman and didn't like it at all. But I wouldn't categorize it as "garbage." It's just something that doesn't appeal to me. I don't think there's anything at the Big 2 or the mid-level publishers that I would call garbage. It's all professionally produced work.

    Some of it I like.
    Some of it I don't.

    Okay....maybe Ann Nocenti's Green Arrow...