DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Back to Seattle. Isnt that here he lived in Grell's series?

    How does making it Connor improve or change anything? I can't really see Connor as a world traveling, hitech Industrialist/crimefighter.
     
  2. C_Miller

    C_Miller Captain Captain

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    It wouldn't This Green Arrow is Roy. There's no way around that one. Again Green Arrow is a perfect example of why a soft reboot doesn't work.
     
  3. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, I could see that being fun.

    An extra fun way to do it would be to have Connor Hawke and Roy Harper inherit equally. He's a Buddhist, he's a heroin addict... they're brothers in charge of a weapons manufacturer!

    But is Ollie Queen REALLY dead?

    See, I've got 12 issues already, and they're all great.
     
  4. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wait, what? This Green Arrow is Roy? I thought it was Ollie.

    Edited to add: Roy is Red Arrow in Red Hood and the Outlaws. Ollie is Green Arrow.
     
  5. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure the old Superman would still stop him, but the problem is the comics always had him too busy fighting aliens and supervillains and other fantastical things to be bothered with that stuff.

    I'm sure it'll be short-lived, but it's really refreshing to see him among real people again, and dealing with more relatable, real world problems.
     
  6. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe she is just stating her brew of choice. ;)
     
  7. C_Miller

    C_Miller Captain Captain

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    No I mean they're trying to make a younger, hipper Green Arrow, when they already have one. This certainly isn't Ollie. They can call him Ollie, but he's not.
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    How is he not Ollie? Why can't Ollie be young and hip? He was at one time the hippest hero DC had. No reason why he cant be that guy again

    Why anyone would want the DC heroes to be a bunch of middle age guys pushing 50 is puzzling. Then again a lot of the fanbase is made up of middle age guys.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  10. C_Miller

    C_Miller Captain Captain

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    In all honesty I wouldn't be having the same problems with this if they actually had the balls to do a hard reboot. I have a hard time swallowing that Batman and Green Lantern have little to no changes, yet they have a complete reboot of Green Arrow where he's practically unrecognizable.

    I actually want them to fully reboot the DCU, if they want to do a reboot at all. It's the halfway stuff that's making this fan uneasy.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I would have liked a hard reboot too. Even if it means saying goodby to Kyle,Jason, Tim, Damian, Cassie and the rest of the "Next Generation". Though I can deal with the cards we've been dealt. Batman and GLs histories are more or less intact. The rest of the line have histories that are yet to be explored. Not really that big of deal.
     
  12. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, this IS a hard reboot. They are just carrying over the stuff that worked. Which is really sorta what they did the last (2?) time.

    After Crisis On Infinite Earths, everyone had to wait and read to see what was kept and what was contradicted.

    The same for the whole New Earth thing.

    Don't listen to Dido's "relaunch" language--which is really just an appeal to the fan community. It's a reboot. We're just coming in in the middle of the story.
     
  13. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the contrary. I want them all to be dead.

    But I suppose, failing that, I would prefer them to be old. It's the Watchmen, Sandman, Miracleman, Dark Knight Returns (I could go on) thing: old, tired, broken people tend to be more interesting than young bucks who have only had a few years to develop their neuroses.

    Also, if Ted Kord's gonna stay dead, then fuck Ollie Queen.
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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  15. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which part?

    If I could go back in time and steal Mike Carlin's job, I probably still would have brought Superman back to life. He gets a pass, because he's Jesus. I would, however, mandate the term "super-resurrection."

    But if I could go back in time and steal Dan DiDio's job, I'd have never brought back, or permitted the return of, Hal Jordan (as contrasted to, importantly, the Green Lantern Corps itself), Barry Allen, Ollie Queen, Bruce Wayne (I know, he wasn't really dead), or Ted Kord. Or anybody.

    Except, maybe, I might've, but only on the condition that all of them were reclaimed in Blackest Night. That would've been pretty epic, and not the faux epic creation myth that even Johns has admitted was a bit of a mistake.

    If we consider the relaunch as a hard reboot, I have no principled objection to Ollie Queen, etc., being alive again. I only have my preferences there.

    As for the old fart preference, I'm a little less serious about that. Any character, or just about any character, is capable of being written in an interesting manner. I might prefer narratives about old people who long for the release of death (my taste in novels and films runs in that direction, too), but that's only because I'm a pessimistic dude.

    I wasn't very serious about my Green Arrow/Red Arrow pitch. Or was I? The first chapter could be called "Samsara & Smack."
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I never would have killed any of them to begin with. Just write them better.
     
  17. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would read Samsara & Smack.
     
  18. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd have killed Barry, for sure. That was the one great moment to occur in Crisis.

    I really like the idea of Hal's fall and redemption, although 1)I'd have chosen a better name than "Parallax" ("the apparent displacement or difference in the apparent of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines"--wow, cool); and 2)yeah, it ought to have been written better, although it had some neat moments.

    I'd probably have killed Ted Kord, too. That definitely needed to be written better, but the idea was fundamentally sound.

    Bruce Wayne? Maybe. Not via Darkseid, probably a death spiral with the Joker, or Bane. Or, maybe better, a random bullet, ala Black and White.

    Ollie Queen? AIDS, obviously.

    Despite myself, I've actually blue-skied half of a plot to the silly thing.

    Actually, I wonder if smack sort of dates it. Mark Renton and Sick Boy are pushing 50 these days themselves. Do people even still do heroin anymore?
     
  19. TemporalFlux

    TemporalFlux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was worth Barry's death just for the great story Robert Loren Fleming gave us in Secret Origins Annual #2. The idea was perfectly set up; Barry was bouncing backward in time as he died on his final run, and in those last moments, he turned into the very energy that formed the lightning bolt that gave him his powers. As Fleming summed up - electricity flows in a circuit. In his final sacrifice, Barry Allen showed that he became a super hero because he was willing to be a super hero.
     
  20. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, I almost mentioned that. I love that story. It's a really amazing little closed timelike curve.