Data/Immortal Coil

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JD, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'm in the process of reading Immortal Coil, and there have been several scenes in Data's lab where he has the bodies of Lore, Lal,
    his mother.
    So I was wondering, has it been established in any of the post-Nemesis stories what was done with their bodies after Data's death?
     
  2. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Keep reading.
    This is addressed for one of these characters in Immortal Coil.
     
  3. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, ok. Yeah, I realized right after I posted that I probably should have waited to see what happened later in the book. Oh, and I didn't read the spoiler, so if anyone wants to discuss it I would ask that you please code it.
     
  4. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    Immortal Coil's been out for years, we're technically past the requirement for keeping quiet about spoilers right?

    Anyway, I know that it was a throwaway reference in that episode where they find Data's mother, but have the three prototypes ever been addressed anywhere else?

    And before anyone jumps up and down shouting "B4!" the book specifically calls them nameless!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  5. LightningStorm

    LightningStorm The Borg King Commodore

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    ^ Yes, generally. However when it is obvious that the OP or the thread in general is about actively reading a book it is considered at least polite to not go spoiling things all willy nilly and to use spoiler tags.
     
  6. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    It's usually just best to follow the OP's lead (regarding spoiler tags).
     
  7. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    fair enough! to be honest it's a while since i posted here, and i forgot the etiquette involved!

    so lore, date, b4, 3 prototypes, julietta... i get 7, any more androids out there?
     
  8. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    have the three prototypes ever been addressed anywhere else? And before anyone jumps up and down shouting "B4!" the book specifically calls them nameless!

    Originally, the "Nemesis" script was calling its Data prototype the "B-9", as in "benign", but just before filming, it became the "B-4", as in "before", with the same joke about Soong's sense of humour.

    By coincidence - or planning? - the change to B-4 fits well with "Inheritance" and "Immortal Coil", with the three previous prototypes known to Juliana Tainer assumed to be coded B-1, B-2 and B-3. If the book specifically calls them nameless, it still works. Even the NEM prototype was called, at times, the B-4. It's a production number rather than a name. For some reason, Juliana was neither aware of this prototype's existence, nor its disappearance. Some fans reckon that B-4 predates the three unnamed prototypes, but we have no evidence either way, or even if they looked like Data.

    I once emailed Jeff Lang, the author of "Immortal Coil", just after NEM, suggesting it might inspire a sequel/prequel to both NEM and "Immortal Coil", but he said once Marco Palmieri had left Pocket Books, he didn't feel he had an "in" for pitching, and was happy to write other things instead.

    so lore, date, b4, 3 prototypes, julietta... i get 7, any more androids out there?

    Yep. Lal. Built by Data to Soong specifications.
     
  9. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    I like the B-1 thing, I hadn't considered that!

     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes. His consciousness is simply too crude to be the model immediately preceding Lore. That's too great a leap in sophistication for two consecutive prototypes. It seems more likely to me that he was the first such prototype. Perhaps B-1 to B-3 were earlier positronic brains in simpler robotic bodies or no bodies at all, and B-4 was the first one in an android body. Or perhaps it wasn't a number but just the joke, "before," as the script suggested.
     
  11. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    The Playmates action figure of Dr Soong came with a little prototype robot accessory, but not canonical, unless he was in the set dressing of "Brothers" somewhere.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Christopher said: "As I've said before, I can't quite buy the idea that B-4 was built after those other three prototypes."

    Or Dr Soong was numbering backwards, like a countdown to the perfect one?

    IIRC, the novel makes no mention of what the other three prototypes look like. Yes, they may just be brains, or crude armatures. Have you ever seen the model of Leonardo da Vinci's crude wooden android?
     
  13. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    To be fair we don't know it went B4 - Lore directly. And B1-3 implies an A model as well. so it's possible the others were more advanced and B4 was the Vista model?
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    My central point is not about the bodies but about the minds. We know of three other prototypes prior to Lore; thus if B-4 were the fourth, that would make him the one right before Lore, and I can't accept that because he's far too primitive.

    And I don't buy the "Vista" explanation. Whatever its faults, Vista was a sophisticated piece of software. B-4 was a Commodore 64. He was like something that was mainly a prototype for the body with only the most basic mental functions included. He strikes me very much as a first draft, not a fourth draft.
     
  15. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    seems to me, B4 was more than a commodore 64

    "i am in a room, with lights." bang self awareness

    "why does the man have a shiny head?" recognising his surroundings and commenting on them

    Lore was more sophisticated, but i buy the idea one led into the other because B4 has all the basic elements.

    Plus we're assuming B4 means Before Lore, it could just mean Before B5...

     
  16. FordSVT

    FordSVT Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Analogy.
     
  17. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    I'm sure you made a lovely point...but you're going to have to go a bit further, you lost me!