'Dark Frontier' Where the Borg went wrong?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by M.A.C.O., Jan 21, 2013.

  1. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    So I'm still on my first watch through of VOY. After completing Dark Frontier I feel this is where the Borg went bad in Star Trek.

    From the introduction of the Mary Sue ship Voyager destroying a Borg ship with a single photon torpedo.

    To the Mary Sue and totally inappropriate Hansen family and their quest to study the Borg. How inept are the Borg to let a single ship stalk them for 3 years and even neglect the transporter singles of drones being beamed off and back, and Papa Hasen's on recon on to the cube. OH WAIT THEY'RE GENIUSES. That explains everything, and all their ingenuity.

    The stupid frakking Queen, and her duality for 7 of 9's soul against Janeway.

    To Tuvok being able to disable the shields for a Borg cube capable of destroying the entire cube.

    There are more things I dislike about this episode but what do guys think?

    At times it feels more like an episode of NuDoctor Who. Where the 11th Doctor can just talk the Daleks in to submission despite the Dalek's reputation as no BS killers. The Queen is at a Unimatrix with millions of Borgs, and yet she is overcome by Janeway talking to her when she could just order her drones to kill/assimilate Janeway.
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I couldn't agree more. It's the first episode to drastically weaken the Borg just to justify Voyager to continue surviving them.
     
  3. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    And I don't agree with you all. The Borg had to have weaknesses in order to be interesting, otherwise everyone that encountered them would have been assimilated and then no more show. The Borg always were weak in certain ways and the more we saw them the weaker they became, they simply don't work any other way.

    I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the mighty Borg meet their doom at the hands of Janeway and Picard. They were on borrowed time anyway, such a society could only grow so long as they could assimilate technology, they couldn't create. It would be inevitable that one day they would meet the Society they couldn't assimilate or the one with the power to resist. The Federation had the cohesiveness of the collective without losing their individuality, and therefore their creativity. The Borg were simply not smart enough to fear them.

    The Borg were doomed from the beginning, but once the Federation became aware of them that doom was sealed.

    In fiction the only interesting villain is the one you can defeat, otherwise the story goes nowhere fast.
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    As Voyager predates the 11th Doctor, it's more accurate to say he feels more like Voyager than the other way around.

    I've watched the episode several times in the past weeks, including earlier today. I never quite understood how that torpedo was beamed aboard in the teaser, since the Borg presumably keep shields up if in range of a potential target and should be able to detect an attempt to penetrate their defenses. Showing how Voyager overcame Borg shields would have been nice.

    I'm not a big fan of the use of flashbacks, whether in literature, television, or film (that's right, I'm not a big fan of Casablanca except for the "Major Strasser has been shot!" scene).

    There are some good moments, though. I like the Fort Knox rehearsal and subsequent mission. I especially like David Bell's score in those scenes.

    Neelix still gets on my nerves.

    For me, the weakening of the Borg as villains began with TNG's "I, Borg".
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I see that as the episode that weakened Picard.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    He should have used that invasive program or whatever it was.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course he should have, I think I literally threw something at the tv when he didn't. Why is it okay to blow up borg cubes but not infect them?
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's alright to infect the Borg, it just wasn't alright to use an innocent and polite kid like Hugh as Subject Zero.

    It's like putting smallpox infected babies in a catapult and firing them at your enemies camp is a little underhanded.

    Don't use babies.

    Find some cattle or old people.

    (If Hugh had been an evil asshole, it would have been all above board.)

    What Picard didn't do is what Icheb's parents did do which is what Janeway wouldn't do with Seven when she was infected.

    Seriously.

    Janeway had a Borg BWMD and she could have plagued the shit out of all of Borg space if she just turned around and headed back to Borg space, but going home (She went back to Borg space in Flesh and Blood... Too early still.) was more important than the right sort of genocide that would save the Federation form the next Borg Invasion.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And we all saw what happened in Treklit because of everyone's happy sentiments. What was it, 400 Billion people dead?

    Okay how about we call for volunteers. Let yourself be borgified by Hugh or 7, infected with the software and sent off to a hive. Suder might have done it, it would have been the most GRAND killing ever. He might have loved the idea.
     
  10. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree, they shouldn't have used the Borg so often.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never got Borged out.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I got the Fan Collective: Borg on the 3rd, and have watched everything except "I, Borg".
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I know I'm contrary but this is one of my favourites.

    Nechayev is so powerful, she's inches from taking Picards command away and handing it over to Riker, who will resign rather that benefit from the bushwacking Picard, and then it's the Captain Data Show.

    Sadly a missed opportunity.

    :(
     
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Or it could have become George Takei's chance for the Captain Sulu Show.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He could have been 20 years younger than McCoy conceivably.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Look up the definition of "Mary Sue" - Voyager, as the lead throughout the series cannot be one.

    To the rest, no. I thought "Dark Frontier" was a lot of fun. Sorry the Borg aren't the utterly invincible force you wish they were. They never have been. They're powerful, but very slow to adapt to new and different theats. Imagine if Picard kept firing in "Q Who" - the Borg would have never had hours they had to repair and adapt and would have been utterly destroyed in their first-ever appearence by standard Starfleet weapons.
     
  17. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    I think that if Picard would have kept on firing at the Borg, they would shoot back faster.
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks, I'd been seeing "Mary Sue" repeatedly referred to out of proper context on posts around here several times lately, and almost mentioned it here, but couldn't write a response that was as polite as yours.

    And congratulations on your recent promotion, Lieutenant. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  19. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    Haha thank you, I hadn't noticed it.
    Now lets hope that with promotion comes wisdom ;)
     
  20. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well to be fair the Doctor uses his wits more foten than some sort of weapon, and remember the Time lords are at least equal to the Daleks if not sperior. Whilst the Federation is supposedly weaker than the Borg.
     

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