Dark Avengers - Your thoughts

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Captain Craig, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    ^It's going to take a lot for people to trust the Hulk again.
     
  2. Ben Sisko3

    Ben Sisko3 Commodore Commodore

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    True. We'll see what Slott's Mighty Avengers does in that regard.
     
  3. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Timeout

    Spider-Man = Norman Osborn?? The original GG is now bonded to the symbiote? What happened to Gargan, I don't read TB.

    Iron Patriot = Harry Osborn??? Did you read the big buddy confession at the end of the last ASM with Molten Man. Is the greater MU even concerened with BND Spidey or what??
     
  4. Ben Sisko3

    Ben Sisko3 Commodore Commodore

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    Who knows if he's even bonded with the symbiote? It could just be a black costume, no symbiote necessary. And nothing's happened with Gargan since he left the T-Bolts, save for an appearance on the last page of New Avengers #48.

    I haven't read Amazing Spider-Man since December 2007, but I have absolutely no doubt that Norman is not above manipulating his son in order to do whatever he wants. And using Harry Osborn as a major player in the MU is the only reason to justify his soap opera-worthy resurrection.
     
  5. darkwing_duck1

    darkwing_duck1 Vice Admiral

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    My thoughts on the whole sorry affair can be summed up as this:

    reboot the 616 MU back to the point of about Thunderbolts 75 (right before "the fight club" took over).

    Nothing less can fix the mess that Jem-ass started and his brown nosed acolyte Joey Q finished.
     
  6. CYOTI

    CYOTI Vice Admiral

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    Quesada isn't the problem, the problem is he is letting monkeys like Bendis and Millar run the insane asylum.
     
  7. Thrall

    Thrall Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, me too more or less. I'd settle for Gwen Stacy not to have pitty fucked Norman Osborne or New X-Men being a bad dream, but everyone already knows my opinion on those so I won't waste anyone's time. The canon has gotten so far away from the core mythology at this point I'd settle for Crisis on Infinite Earths style revamp but, because of the guys in charge, we'd get something like The Ultimate Universe. But I must be honest and confess I don't hate The Ultimate Universe as much as most people do. Mostly because, unlike the 616, the characterization is always consistent if not neccissarily good or appropriate. And it doesn't have nearly a half century of mythology to throw out the window like these guys get off on doing. And it's Cyclops and Phoenix are still together and, because I'm so fanatically shippy, that's always enough to keep me content. And Sam Jackson as Nick Fury is a pretty cool idea.

    Bendis chased me away from The Avengers the same way he chased me away from Ultimate X-Men and the same reason I never got into Ultimate Spider-Man. I just don't like his writing. I don't have a professional dislike for him like, say, I do Grant Morrison. I'm sure he's an OK guy. I've always found his writing underwhelming and nothing I've ever read from him has ever once done anything to even slightly change that opinion. Ok, I take that back slightly. I think his dialogue is great. But everything else is just kind of "there" for me. Without any of the Earth shattering moments he always puts forth, he really doesn't have much to offer IMO. So this is just kind of more of the same, predicatable "change just for the sake of change" nonsense he and Millar and Quesada and everyone else have been peddling since 2000. I'm sure it will sell well. Big names on big titles combined with big events always do. But that doesn't make it good. And even if it is, quality writing without a sense of mythology is meaningless. At least to me.
     
  8. darkwing_duck1

    darkwing_duck1 Vice Admiral

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    Since Joey is EIC, and has the power to STOP them, yes he IS the problem.

    He LIKES Bendis/Millar. He's said publicly that the Ultimateverse is the better Marvel Universe. That's what all this crap that's happened under his watch is all about: "ultimatizing" the 616 continuity.

    I cannot say enough bad things about an EIC that would allow writers to MISwrite a group like the New Warriors just to kick off a crappy, "universe changing" storyline like Civil War. Or killing Cap for no good reason. Or busting up Spidey and Mary Jane.

    He needs to go, like YESTERDAY. Put DeFalco in charge...he knows how 616 Marvel SHOULD be written!
     
  9. blaXXer

    blaXXer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Another thread hijacked by the acolytes of suck...heck, don't get you panties inna bunch but comics have outgrown you. Get back to your insignificant lives and let us nerds contemplate the current status quo in peace, please...
     
  10. darkwing_duck1

    darkwing_duck1 Vice Admiral

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    How can you hijack your own thread?
     
  11. Gojirob

    Gojirob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We will let you enjoy the status quo in peace then, and wish you a happy seven months.
     
  12. CYOTI

    CYOTI Vice Admiral

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    I don't care much for OMD/BND, but Marvel has managed to turn the Captain America comic around or would you have preferred it back before then when they were using that book to shill for Hilary Clinton's health initiatives or just bashing Republican politicians?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  13. Gojirob

    Gojirob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to get OT, but here's a thought inspired by your post. My frustration and even anger with BND aside, I had wondered why the erasure of Pete/MJ had negated Harry's death. Now I'm thinking : What if it wasn't the Parkers deal with Mephisto that restored him, but a separate deal inked by Norman? Though what he could have that Mephisto wants is beyond me, since his soul is pretty much Mephisto-Bound, no questions asked.
     
  14. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That would've been cool...I'd buy that. I've been enjoying what has been going on in the 616 universe over the last couple of years. Dark Reign is only supposed to last a couple of months...not sure what will be succeeding it. About the line up speculation...

    -Spider-Man/Venom
    -Ms.Marvel/Moonstone
    -Wolverine/Draken
    -Noh-Var
    -Iron Patriot/Harry Osborn or Norman Osborn

    I'm forgetting someone..I'm intrigued by the concept along with the Anti-Illuminatii...and am interested in seeing where this goes.
     
  15. Nick Ryder

    Nick Ryder Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My feeling is that somehow, OMD/BND is somehow Osborne's doing. Not sure how, but he's got to be behind it. The simple fact that Harry is still alive and now Norman is making him the Iron Cap figurehead... something is rotten in the state of Osborne. I mean really NOTHING else has changed other than no MJ/Pete wedding, which really is odd in and of itself.

    I mean, I reread SSM#200 again recently, where Harry dies, and its pretty much her that talks Harry out of killing Pete by blowing up the house. Not to mention the one that kinda kept things 'real' for Peter over the years. I dunno... something is definately not right there

    Norman=Mephisto!
     
  16. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Marvel universe has never been more interesting as a whole. Disassembled REALLY got things rocking, and it hasn't recovered since (despite all of the whiners saying "it's a lame story that will be forgotten about in 6 months"... nice to see things still moving from that!)

    It's moving organically from chapter to chapter, and I'm loving that the villains are now totally in charge. Though story potential isn't always realized with the new status quos of late, it still fires the imagination!

    Even looking at that picture, same heroes, but sdifferent. LOVE Moonstone's new costume! What a way to show the world she's on your side by using the much loved Captain Marvel pattern (FINALLY a Ms. Marvel does that!!). Well, it at least worked for me!! :)
     
  17. mostlyharmless

    mostlyharmless Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While I agree, that the Marvel Universe is quite an interesting and entertaining place these days, I do miss the "old-days", when there wasn´t one Universe-wide crossover after another, emeshing all the books into chapters of One Big Story. I liked it better when each book had it´s own story, tone, and pace, that could be read and enjoyed without having to buy a half a dozen other titles to understand what is going on.
     
  18. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^
    Yeah, I agree with THAT as well. A break is needed. Set up the new status quo maybe and live in that for a few years.

    (With that said, I'm a fan of the Hulk series right now, I know I'm in the minority. But that seems to totally disregard all continuity! Most people hate it, but it leaves for a fun book for me!!)
     
  19. Nick Ryder

    Nick Ryder Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I honestly long for the old days of the 90s where maybe each 'family' had their own crossovers that sort of spilled over into other titles but you didn't have to essentially buy EVERYTHING the company made to get the story. Civil War comes to mind of a story that went through SO MANY issues of SO MANY titles for quite a while. I hope that after Dark Reign and whatever sort of resolves that, we get a break. Just let each title tell its own stories again, its own arcs, its own storylines and maybe just give it a year or two to just sort of let each title stand on its own, without having another 'ZOMG! Wolverine and Iron Man and Spider-Man are guest staring!" arc every month.

    Although I do rather enjoy Ms. Marvel and She Hulk, I got a couple of the TPBs and I really enjoy how they set the stories of Civil War up but didn't get too overly enmeshed in it to the point of where universe changing things happened. Change for the sake of change is really getting annoying. Just because you got a different idea doesn't mean it HAS to be done.

    "Yeah we're going to make Tony Stark the new Hawkeye. I think fans will really get a kick out of it!"
     
  20. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I will agree that I miss the old days as well as I grew up on them but I'm loving the dismantaling into chaos that is going on currently as well. IMHO it's better than most of the stuff that DC has been doing...with perhaps the exception of the Green Lantern stuff and Superman that Geoff Johns has been involved with. I like that the villians are in control and manipulating events and that the heores are out of control, distrustfull of each other and uncoordinated. It used to be that a crisis occured everyone would rally behind the Avengers and Fantastic Four but now...the Avengers were dissassembled, became new and mighty but still not the old guard. The FF hasn't been the same in years...although I must admit that I haven't been reading FF on a regular basis and pick up the trades when the library gets them in.

    Norman as Mephisto...interesting. Didn't think about that at all. That would explain some of what has been going on including the bargain with Peter in One More Day. Norman though will eventually descend into madness again though...the Goblin is the real power behind the man afterall. As said in the Fox 90's animated series..."There's only one true Goblin, the Green Goblin!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!" (tosses pumpkin bombs at Peter and Hobgoblin)!
     

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