Crusade Question

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    A few weeks ago I got Crusade on DVD and finished it in about a week. Even though I watched it in the order it was on the DVD (The TV airing order) I really did enjoy it. I liked the characters, the overall plot and I really can't think of an episode I disliked (although War Zone was pretty weak, but as I understand it TNT forced him to write an episode they wanted, and War Zone was the result). My favorite character is probably a tie between Galen and Gideon. Max is probably my least favorite, mostly because it didn't feel like he had too much character outside the one episode centered on him. Besides that one episode, he was pretty much a one note character. He was the greedy smart guy who always wanted to chicken out and run away. I didn't hate him or even really dislike him, but his interesting moments were basically just the episode with his wife, and when he didn't tell his company about the planet with Dureena's people.

    Now, for the question. I've been looking online, but I can't find an answer. Has JMS ever explained where Crusade was going? By that I mean, did he have a plan as to how the plague would actually get cured? I don't know how many seasons he would have wanted the show to go, or if he planed to have the plague around for however long the show would run, but I am kind of interested in hearing if he ever gave any info about where he would have had Crusade go after the first season.
     
  2. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Yes, there would've been a cure, in S2, I believe (But, it wouldn't be what they thought it was, and then a real cure would be found...or something to that effect)

    The ship would be on the Run from Earthforce

    Dureena had some kind of destiny that she spoke to Galen a bit about

    Gideon would die (or maybe just be taken out of play) and The Apocalypse box (with Gideon's voice) would step up in mystery

    All of this could be slightly twisted around, vague memories :alienblush:
     
  3. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Max does have a character arc, but it's subtle enough that you don't really notice it unless you watch the episodes in a certain order. I forget which order, though.
     
  4. ManOnTheWave

    ManOnTheWave Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Location:
    ManOnTheWave
    I'm doing this from memory, but IIRC...

    The show would have five seasons like B5.

    Gideon would be assassinated at the end of the season cliffhanger after he finds out Earthforce built the ship that destroyed his ship during The Shadow War. His soul would be absorbed by The Apocalypse Box leaving a window for him to come back.

    Galen was in touch with the Technomages all along, and not really an outcast.

    Dureena would go on a quest after finding an ancient sword.

    Bester would have been a guest star late in season one.

    The plague would be cured in season two, but not really, somehow leading The Excalibur to go rogue in search of the real cure.
     
  5. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    On the beach
    My understanding is that the Excalibur has to go on the run because the crew uncover the Earthforce base that is exploiting Shadow tech and which built the ship that destroyed Gideon's ship.

    I assume the "cure" near the beginning of S2 would have turned out to morally compromise the human race to ensure its survival -- similar to the healing machine on B5, it would take life to save life.

    I also assume that Galen's backstory would be told along the lines of what is in the Technomage trilogy.

    My opinion is that Max was one of the best characters on the show -- he's a smartarse, who doesn't like to acknowledge his own shortcomings, but he's never dull.
     
  6. dansigal

    dansigal Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    I remember JMS saying that the show was ultimately not going to be what everyone thought it was, that the plague storyline would be wrapped up in the second season and that the bigger arc for the show would revolve around Earth and the use of Shadow tech. It's a damn shame we never got to see that show.
     
  7. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    That stuff sounds interesting. I really like what we got of Crusade, I wish it had gotten to stay around. I especially wonder what would have happened if Gideon had died. Assuming they didn’t bring him back with that weird box in early Season 2, who would they replace him with as Captain? I liked Lt. Matheson, but I don’t think he would have been promoted to Captain of such an important position. I guess Lochley would have made the most sense. Since Sheridan’s office was also working on this issue with EarthGov, maybe he’d get reccomend her, and she’d get reassigned from B5 to the Excalibur. Either that, or they’d get a brand new commander.
     
  8. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Max was the best character in Crusade, along with Dureena. He had a personality. Unlike bloody Matheson. Gideon was fairly flat, and frequently unintentionally hilarious. The opening title sequence of Crusade makes me laugh every time I see it. So amazingly embarrassing.
     
  9. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    I HATE Crusade's opening sequence. I listened to it once, then just skipped it for the rest of the episodes. Its really corny, and just plain stupid.
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    While I could get behind the idea of seeing more of Crusade's story, they would have needed a new music composer. I understand that JMS wanted something "different" for the music, but that was just unbearable for me.
     
  11. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    It's an acquired taste, but, I enjoy it now that I have acquired the taste :bolian:
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    Great Britain
    I like the music, though it is very eccentric.
     
  13. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    The music is very hit and miss IMO. It's very moody ant atmospheric in the scenes that call for it, but the second anything action related happens it feels very awkward and just falls totally flat.
     
  14. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I LOVE the "running" drums in action sequences :alienblush:

    It's like Phil Collins' In The Air Tinght playing during a Car chase
     
  15. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I just finished watching it with a first-timer friend as well so I've been doing some research.

    Season One:
    Gideon learns that the Shadowy Hybrid ship that destroyed the Cerebus was an Earthforce vessel and they are continuing their Shadow Tech experiments today. He and Galen discover one of the bases and the CO reveals to Gideon that the Technomages got their tech from the Shadows as well. Galen was sent back into the world by the Mages to eliminate any use of Shadow Tech. When Gideon tries to go public with this conspiracy he's assassinated.

    Season Two:
    Gideon is resurrected by the Apocalypse Box somehow. The Plague is cured in Season Two thanks to the Box's aid, but at the cost of another world's life. I'm guessing there is a Shadow Tech Conspiracy coup that takes control of Earthforce, resulting in the Excalibur going into exile. Or maybe they're hunted because of their controversial cure to the Plague.

    Dureena becomes a Technomage under Galen's guidance. Since the novels show that the Mages can't make more Mages without the Shadows, the Mages must learn this ability over the course of the series.

    Eilerson betrays the crew, presumably to the Earthforce conspiracy. And unlike Londo, he apparently does not redeem himself.

    Unconfirmed as it's from a non-canon RPG game:
    There are six surviving Apocalypse Boxes. They are the remnants of a telepathic race destroyed in the 1,000 year ago Shadow War. They converted their minds into the boxes to survive their world's destruction. Their mission is to enact revenge on anything connected to the First Ones / Shadows / Vorlons. Once you gain possession of a Box, you are spiritually chained to it, kept alive in agony until it's done with you. That's why Gideon survives the assassination.
     
  16. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Location:
    Washington State, USA
    Wait, what was that about Mages? I assume they "make" a technomage through just teaching someone. I'd guess some kind of apprentice system (a technomage chooses a pupil/successor and teaches them what they know) and eventually the person "graduates" (knowing technomages, probably in some weird ceremony) and is then an officially recognised technomage. I've never read any B5 book, although I know of the technomage books. I'll never get to read them because the first book is over $20 in the only place I could get it (amazon.com) and I refuse to pay that much for any book, much less an over 12 year old tv tie in book (I wouldn't even pay that much for a Star Wars or Star trek book, with a B5 book by an author I've never heard of my max paying price would be about $2). I'm assuming thats the novels you mean when you say that novels connected the technomages to the shadows. It would be really weird if the technomages needed the shadows to "make" more mages, but I am kind of glad that idea never made it to TV. Not everything in the B5 universe needs to be connected to the shadows.

    As for the Season Two thing, I would hope that we wouldn't see EarthGov/Earthforce getting taken over again. That was the most frustrating/annoying part of B5's storyline, the human race becoming collectively idiots and blindly following an obvious dictator. I mean, probably about 90% of all the humans in existence blindly followed this obvious tyranical government, including the always idiotic Earthforce (seriously, if there are more than about 20 Earthforce officers who aren't corrupt idiots I'd be shocked). The last thing the B5 universe needed was another crazy group taking control of the government/military.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Going by the novels, the "tech" in technomage is literal. They have technology incorporated into their bodies that enables/assists them in performing their tricks. It's revealed that this technology is supplied to them by the Shadows, though most of the mages are unaware of this at the beginning of the technomage trilogy. It is also, predictably, resistant to study/replication.
     
  18. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    The Technomages were essentially the weapons of the Shadows in the same way the Telepaths were the weapons of the Vorlons. They just chose not to participate in the conflict.
     
  19. dansigal

    dansigal Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Getting a bit off topic, but the three trilogies (Centauri Prime, Telepath/Bester, and Technomages) are essentially considered cannon to the extent any tie in book series can be considered cannon for a show. All three were written based on basic story/plot outlines developed by JMS as part of his development of the overall Babylon 5 universe. And all 3 really are great and worth reading if you can find them. They fill in a lot of holes and finish a lot of stories, and even though they aren't written by JMS, they do it in the way JMS intended it to be done. Just some really great stuff.
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    ^ 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows' is also considered 100% canon. No "essentially" about it. JMS says so right there in the foreword. ;)

    'The Shadow Within' is in a bit of a grey area. Near as I can tell all the Morden/Anna/Icarus stuff is totally canon and is directly referenced in the techno-mage book (by the same author) but the Sheridan/Aggie/Homeguard story...not so much. With is as it should be since that b-story was only really there for padding and IIRC has very little of consequence going on.

    I think what bothered me was the tempo not matching the visuals. Admittedly it's better in the show than in 'A Call to Arms', but to me it never came close to what Christopher Franke did in B5, even early on.

    I guess it was too great a cognitive dissonance for my poor little brain. Like playing thrash metal during a performance of swan lake. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013