Creepy Bajoran Men

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Bad Thoughts, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I rewatched the Circle trilogy last night, which cemented an opinion that I had been forming: that Bajoran men are generally creepy. These episodes had three great character, whom are either dead or disgraced by the end. Jaro was good as the corrupt politician, and Krim had room to develop as the principled but misguided general. And Li was awesome as the uncertain man who had leadership qualities within him--actually very well played by Beymer. On the other hand, Bareil's behavior was becoming strange, and taken out of context, he looks like a stalker. He was good only in ITHOTP. I never thought much of Shakaar, and while Mora and Solbor were interesting and sympathetic, they lacked heroic qualities. Compared to Kai Winn, there was not male Bajoran, good or evil, to really make Bajoran politics meaningful in the late seasons.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Um. Mora and Solbor were never intended to be heroic characters.

    I agree that Bareil's portrayal was a bit odd. I wonder how much of that was the actor's choices and how much responsibility falls elsewhere.

    Krim gets some play in the novels. I won't spoil anything here except to say that I think he redeems himself quite well.
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Only one person on your list is characterized as creepy in any way. Being a corrupt politician or a principled but misguided general or an awesome uncertain leader or a scientist or an old Ranjin doesn't really scream "creepy" to me.

    But yeah, Bareil definitely had an odd vibe to him sometimes. ;)
     
  4. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bareil was a little creepy. But I wouldn't say that all Bajoran men were creepy.
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never got the sense that Krim or Li or even Bareil were ever creepy. Day, perhaps. But then again, Day was just a stereotypical jackass. :lol:

    (Side note: Solbor was just supposed to be some sort of one-off character, but TPTB liked James Otis so much that they made the role more important.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  6. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By far the creepiest Bajoran male was Anjohl Tennan.
     
  7. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Does he really count though? ;)
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    To clarify: I was saying that Li, Krim and Jaro were the only Bajoran men who seemed to be men of stature. Once they were gone, we were left with Bareil, Shakar, Mora and Solbor (both more introverted, scholar types), and random former resistance members. Some of them were obviously designed to play a specific role in the story, and like Solbor (whose name I take during Halloween), they might be well performed. Nonetheless, there doesn't seem to have been much of an effort to write strong male Bajorans who might take a leading role in DS9's grand narrative. Shouldn't we be surprised that it was Winn who negotiated with Weyoun?
     
  9. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which equals creepy how?
     
  10. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    It's not in itself creepy, except that there was a need for strong characters that was filled instead with men who were either introverted, devious, or who lacked presence.
     
  11. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wait, why should it be strange for Winn to negotiate with Weyoun? As Kai she was the spiritual leader of Bajor and there was apparently at least some connection between the Vedek Assembly and the Bajoran government. It could be that as Kai she would have an important role in negotiating with foreign governments (remember Bareil was on a diplomatic mission to the Cardassians when he died).
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    As a religious leader, it might make sense that she would provide an opening for negotiations to take place, perhaps that she might be involved on some level. Ultimately, it's the leaders of governments who hammer out the details of treaties, something that Winn admitted was outside her purview.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really understand this perceived need. Why do you feel there was a need for such characters? Do you feel certain stories fell flat due to their lack?
     
  14. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, we are counting Humans pretending to be Bajorans so a Human pretending to be Cardassian who is pretending to be Bajoran should be okay.:p
     
  15. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the race can seem overly passive and navel gazing so when you have a more definitive adjective such as creepy it stands out.
     
  16. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

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    To me, Bareil was "creepy" because the show introduces him as a deeply spiritual man with benevolent political ambitions. He is essentially a monk, which have the stereotype of celibate people with a spiritual connection, in this case to The Prophets. Once he starts trying to get into Kira's pants as much as possible, we lose that perspective of him - almost as if he's betraying something that should be the first concern in his life before all others. Not that I have a strong belief in celibacy for most people - but that is the impression his character gave me when he was first introduced.

    Also, the plot of "Life Support" is inherently creepy, having half a cybernetic brain keep Bareil alive like some sort of robot zombie. That wasn't his fault, though.
     
  17. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree that it would have been nice to have some more interesting Bajoran males that didn't get killed off or just appeared for a couple episodes. I don't think it strictly necessary; but it would have added something interesting. With Kira such a stong and fiery character, and Winn a poisonous bitch, a lot of the male characters seem a bit flat and tame by comparison.

    That said, I actually really liked the character of Bareil. I've said this elsewhere; I just don't get that he's meant to come over as "creepy". He never did to me. I found him instantly sympathetic and he seemed strong to me, just a quiet sort of strength that rests in itself; not lashing out in a temper. I saw him as kind, serene and quite dignified but with a hidden little glint of mischief.
    I also liked the fact they wrote him as a cleric but one with anti-authoritarian attitudes who doesn't accept dogma just on say-so.
    I think a little bit more could have been done with that.
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Like I said above, I think any Bareil creepiness may have been due more to the actor than to creative intent.
     
  19. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    huh, I actually thouht Philip Anselm played he part rather well. ~shrugs~
     
  20. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bareil isn't creepy - he's the only Bajoran guy I actually like. Everyone else is either fanatic, racist, annoying, or preachy.