Court Martial - Ion Pod revisited

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by MarsWeeps, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Captain Captain

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    I for one loved TOS-R's effects.
     
  2. BK613

    BK613 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like to think of the ion pods as being stored one after another along the impulse spine and the "ion plates" being read as either the six rectangles at the front of the nacelles or the eight on the struts.
     
  3. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If the point for the ion pod is to measure interstellar storms outside of the influence of the shields. Then the best location for it would be on the bottom or aft end of the engineering section. That way when it's ejected, it doesn't pose a risk of hitting the ship. Most importantly the engines. If it's at the bottom of the saucer section then it could possibly hit the navigation deflector.
     
  4. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Unless someone prefers to give that thingy at the bottom of the engineering hull a different treknological identification, I'd say we are looking straight at the ion pod or a structure of which it is a part of. ;)

    Bob
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry, double post (shall we rather have a port and starboard ion pod near the shuttlebay or will one be sufficient?)
     
  6. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Regarding the Ion Pod, I never saw those Mandel and Newitt drawings before. Definitely snagged them for my own files. Thanks, guys. :techman:

    Incidentally, in the Mandel lower sensor dome concept, the pod looks too small for a man to occupy except as a contortionist.
     
  7. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He could squeeze into the Tallywhacker.
     
  8. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, the officer on duty must insert his Langmuir probe into the tallywhacker. That's why the ion pods are jettisoned after use. Safe parsecs.
     
  9. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let's not get snippy over why people don't like the new FX. You asked, people responded. Some love them, some hate them, some are on the fence. Everyone's different. Agree or not, let's respect opinions. Nobody is forcing anyone to conform.

    Regarding the new FX, I like a lot of them, some of them I'm not crazy about. I respect why it was done: to make Trek a viable property in HD for syndication, make more scratch, and to try to increase its shelf life. If they had more time and money, some of the problems may have never occurred, but where I have an issue is where the FX guys didn't actually pay strict attention to the dialog or intent of the scenes. Other threads are full of these discussions, but episodes like The Doomsday Machine and The Paradise Syndrome have effects that were "kwel" rather than faithful to the original intent. The original energy of some scenes is now missing as well.

    The vast majority of Trek episodes don't rely on effects - they couldn't. Most episodes use the shots to establish something: a location (deep space, a planet, a space station), or just an Enterprise fly-by. The strengths of the series were always the stories and the characters, so most episodes really aren't effected at all. However, those episodes which did need the effects to sell a point were greatly impacted for better or worse. It's up to the individual to decide for themselves. We still have the originals to fall back on, it's not like George Lucas supervised the effects. For one or two episodes, I stick with the new FX, but for the most part, I go back to the originals I've watched my whole life. I prefer them. Actually, I go back to the laserdiscs for the sound mix, but that's another - and worn out - discussion.

    Some people also don't think the went far enough with them and missed an opportunity to do something really imaginative. Others wanted the original effects recreated as closely as possible, without embellishment. There will never be a consensus and never will all of us be happy. That's the way it goes.

    As for the Ion Pod, even as a kid in the 70's, it didn't confuse or bother me that I learned nothing about it. It was a Maguffin, nothing more. Kirk's plight was the real issue, the pod was just 60's "technobabble" to put the proper sci-fi feel on Finney's death. As a kid, I just thought "ion pod" sounded cool and it was enough that the file room guy had to go in it and Kirk was allegedly forced to jettison the thing. I filled in the blanks with my imagination.
     
  10. feek61

    feek61 Captain Captain

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    Having it in the engineering section certainly would have made it easier for Finny to hide without being seen. That may have been more difficult if it was located at the bottom of the sensor dome on the saucer section. In any case I will second the thought that it never really bothered me they didn't go into more detail in the show about where it was or what it did. Actually the fact that they didn't tell you really made me think a lot about it. Part of the fun I guess.
     
  11. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    I believe they used the original actual color of the Enterprise model as opposed to the color seen on tv due to lack of sophistication in the FX, photography, lighting, analog compositing, etc. The CGI FX, matched for the time period, will always look better than the original FX.

    RAMA
     
  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Proven by TOS-R, and other horrible CG jobs like the Star Wars special edition/DVD Jabba the Hutt shoved in the 1977 film.

    ...like that toy/TV remote Enterprise design.
     
  13. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Well said.

    Again, well said.
     
  14. EliyahuQeoni

    EliyahuQeoni Commodore Commodore

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    The problem is that they don't match up with the rest of the shots. The CGI stands out like a sore thumb.

    Also, these FX shots are not "remastered," they are completely new CGI FX.
     
  15. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    The effects shots weren't remastered; they were brand new. But the rest of each episode was remastered--going back to the original 35 mm film negatives instead of relying on the digital copies that were made for the earlier DVDs.
     
  16. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    :confused: "Digital copies"? I was under the impression, that the original 35mm negative duplicates were scanned in HD resolution but merely "down-rezed" for the first TOS DVD releases. If memory serves the TOS DVDs were advertised to come from freshly made and new (HD) masters.

    Put simply, the TOS DVD owners already have the same original content as the TOS Blu-ray owners, although with less resolution / picture detail and color fidelity (because of DVD's MPEG-2 data compression).

    Maxwell Everett probably has all the vital information on this subject.

    Bob
     
  17. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    So back when the original DVDs were made in 1999-ish, they were scanned and stored at a resolution that didn't yet exist for the pubic, in anticipation of a yet-to-be developed HD medium? And since that HD medium wasn't developed yet, the images were down-rezzed and put out on regular DVD? And then when a HD format was developed, they simply released the images at the level of resolution at which they were originally obtained years earlier (and with newly-made VFX)?
     
  18. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Well that's exactly what they did with the James Bond films during the remastering process for DVD - in fact the scanning resolution was quoted as being "slightly higher" than the resolution of the film stock itself - basically, to prevent having to go back to the negatives ever again.

    As for Star Trek ... dunno. But there is at least a precedent.
     
  19. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Please take the time and look up "HDTV" at Wikipedia.org, by the mid-90's the arrival of public HDTV was already in the pipeline. For the anamorphic (16X9 enhanced) widescreen DVDs (introduced 1997) they didn't use pre-existing old masters but already made new transfers in HD to prepare for HD broadcast and downconvert the resolution to sell DVDs.

    Many of these HD masters were used for HD broadcast but in many cases, once HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc arrived, the studios felt the original HD masters were no longer state-of-the-art and decided they needed new ones with better HD resolution.

    I'm simply not sure whether TOS relied on these early HD masters or whether new ones were made. Even in the current HD resolution, I'd say there is about 10-20% original live action footage where original negatives apparently got lost (10-20% live footage seems to have been replaced with footage from low resolution film copies that equals the sharpness levels of the current TOS DVDs).

    Sorry for strolling off-topic, I shall add an on-topic comment in a few minutes to put the thread back on track. :)

    Bob
     
  20. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Shouldn't there be a phaser emplacement where Mandel suspected the ion pod to be located? ;)

    I know, the phaser beams don't match exactly the center of the lower dome (did these VFX ever match exactly?) but I think this original VFX shot rather intended to locate the beams in the center than on the (usual) upper ring of the dome.

    Additionally, the Mandel ion pod would straight connect to the phaser control room seen in "Balance of Terror". While its central power circuit column (first seen as transporter circuit in "The Enemy Within") could power this dome phaser, it's apparently to small to serve as a crawltube for a man.

    Bob