COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by King Daniel Beyond, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe she was one of Mudd's women that he married himself?
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    If you say so. But he's still just one member of the films' creative team, so assuming that the comics are the work of the exact same creative brain trust as the films is incorrect.

    Also, a "story" credit can refer to anything from a panel-by-panel breakdown of the entire issue sans dialogue to merely a rough summary of the basic premise. So we don't know which parts of this story actually come from Orci and which come from Mike Johnson.
     
  3. Ketrick

    Ketrick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    True, but it's not quite that simple. First, he's made it clear that the reason they're not canonical is simply because the Supreme Court doesn't feel it's right to change the current rule that only what's on film is canon, not that the decision has anything to do with whether or not they believe the comics are canon worthy. Also, he's made it clear that a future court may decide they are canon and he also stated that he wouldn't mind if Countdown were adapted into an animated dtv thus making it canon. Second, he stated in the recent startrek.com interview that while they aren't canon, the comics are as close you can get to being canon without being filmed which IMO makes them at least semi-canonical.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, and the Star Wars novels were "canonical" until new screen productions started contradicting them, and now we hear that Episode VII will probably disregard the EU altogether. Canon is not some magical invocation that fans can rely on as an absolute standard of truth. It's all just made up anyway and the people making it up can change their minds about anything. Even onscreen canon can contradict itself all the time. So Chekov wasn't on the show in the first season? Who cares? We'll say Khan knew him anyway. So Data used contractions all the time up to now? So what? Now he can't use them.

    Fans put all this energy into talking and arguing and worrying about whether one thing is canon or another thing isn't, as if canon were some important, fixed truth they could rely on, but it really doesn't matter that much. It's just a label.
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You do understand that there are no actual courts or body of law or precedent involved here, right? It's all figurative speech.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Supreme Court?? Canon??? Lawl.
     
  7. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The BBS would be a pretty dead place if we didn't.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Nah, we can always find something to talk about. Like the color of Kirk's shirt.
     
  9. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    Or the color of the warp nacelles.

    Hell, we like to talk about colors period.
     
  10. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Green with a slight hint of gold as it appears onscreen.

    That's canon :techman:
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Depends on the screen. ;)
     
  12. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I still don't think that it's the woman who's speaking, look at the bubble with the text. It's always used in this format when the person talking is not being seen in the picture!
     
  13. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Or, perhaps, if the person talking is doing so via the viewscreen?
     
  14. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I gotta call "fan-wank" here. It's great fun to see so many not-so-mainstream references to TOS in this issue. That being said, however, I'll bet less than 1% of what's in these comics makes it into the movie.

    Look at the last "Countdown" series, leading up to the 2009 movie. We were treated to all of the TNG cast -- Picard, Worf, Geordi, so on -- we were told the Narada was Borg technology, etc... etc... etc...

    But when the film hit the big screen, the ONLY thing that carried over from the comics was that Spock and Nero had fallen into a wormhole, after the destruction of Romulus.

    So, come May, I'm guessing the only likely elements of this miniseries to end up in the movie are the debate about the Prime Directive, maybe Robert April (if so, it's Peter Weller), and something we won't see until the fourth issue.

    A Bajoran Mudd is nothing more than wishful thinking and a distraction. It'll never see the light of day when the movie is released, because of the fact it's too obscure and intricate. And you can take that to the bank!
     
  15. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

    There's a very slight chance that Nolan North might be playing Capt. April.

    Early on in this thread someone did a comparison of Norths pic and that of the drawing of April in the comic...

    There's an uncanny similarity.
     
  16. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    Could be. Although it almost seems as if she is choking someone.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    That the primeverse novels have been freely contradicting events from Countdown in their version of the post-Nemesis continuity makes it pretty clear that they're not canon. The comics are one continuity, the novels another, Star Trek Online a third, all based on TV/film Trek but extrapolating from them differently.

    Gene Roddenberry wrote the novelization of TMP, Denny Martin Flynn wrote a post-STVI novel called The Fearful Summons and Brannon Braga co-wrote a comic called Hive. I'm sure they all considered them what definitively "happened" in the Trekverse, but all have been ignored and contradicted by one thing or another. Canon is the body of established work that later work is supposed to remain consistent with. And they haven't.

    (not that canon has a very good track record of remaining consistent - see the videos in my sig for examples)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  18. Ketrick

    Ketrick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I never said they were canon. I was merely making the point that their canonical status isn't a simple open and shut case, that it's more complicated than Christopher's statement implied.

    Btw, how have the Primeverse novels contradicted the events of Countdown? My understanding is that none of the novels with the exception of the STO novel and an Enterprise novel have taken place after or even during 2387.

    I would also point out that there is a far better argument for making these comics canon than any others by creators in the past. For one thing, there has never been this consistent involvement of creators before in Trek literature, not even Jeri Taylor. For another, it can be argued that the creation of the alternate reality makes it necessary to consider changing the normal practice of only what is on film is canon for that reality because it's quite possible that only three movies and perhaps an animated series will take place in it and simply that the AR is a new and mostly separate unit and thus the old policy need not necessarily apply in this instance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Data's return in the novels is totally different to the version in Countdown. In the comic, Data basically awakens in B-4's body. In the novels (without spoiling too much), they explicitly say that Data's memories are too complex for B-4's positronic matrix to handle and their being there is actually causing him damage.
    I see what you're saying, but I have a hard time reconciling some of the concepts in the comics with the movies. Specifically the Narada's cloaking device from Countdown (it could fire while cloaked!) and the intruder countermeasures which skewered Worf in Countdown and vapourized several Klingon technicians in the Nero comic. If the movie ship had those abilities, Kirk and Spock wouldn't have lasted very long once they beamed over! IDK if the movie adaptation incorporates these elements and modifies the story accordingly (haven't read it), but it seems they've taken a few too many liberties to say they're the comics are the exact same continuity as the films.
     
  20. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    Don't forget that the Narada took heavy damage when the Kelvin crashed into her.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013