COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by King Daniel Beyond, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Unnamed sources. And such early claims from "reliable sources" have been wrong many times in the past. Hearsay is not evidence and not worth wasting time with. It's just something the media sites use to fill space with when they don't have any actual news to report. Which is why it's so important not to confuse rumor with news. Journalistic standards in the Internet age have degenerated so badly that it's incumbent on the individual to read defensively and be very careful about what claims one takes seriously.


    Again, that's getting the burden of proof entirely backwards. There's nothing that proves there isn't an invisible pink elephant levitating behind me right now, but that doesn't mean it would be rational of me to believe there was.

    And I've seen the clip where Alice Eve says "It's not Khan," and it's completely off the cuff and unthinking. There's no sign she's being calculating or careful to throw people off. In fact, I think if she'd stopped to think about it, she wouldn't have said anything, because even a denial is giving away too many specifics by Abrams's standards. (I think Pegg got in a bit of trouble by making the same denial months earlier.) She just blurted it out absently in the context of an awards-show interview that was mainly about other stuff. Unless she's spent weeks practicing for that situation so that she could lie unthinkingly, I'd say she was telling the truth. And you'd have to be really paranoid to think she'd go to those lengths to deceive rather than just saying nothing.


    As I've said, it's not about a single piece of evidence. No single assertion is reliable regardless of the source, which is why corroboration is essential. At this point, we have several corroborating pieces of relatively strong evidence pointing away from the Khan speculations. We have nothing but hearsay and rumor in the other direction. If some real evidence comes along pointing to Khan, of course I'll reassess the probabilities, because that's what a sensible person does. It's not about beliefs or hopes or deceptive things like that; it's about estimating probabilities based on the evidence. Of course probabilities can shift as new evidence comes along, but there's no sense in pre-emptively expecting the probabilities to go against the evidence. It could be that John Harrison is a disguised Khan, but that is far from the most likely scenario at this point.

    Anyway, it's a silly thing to waste time arguing over, because the movie will be out within three months and then we'll actually know.
     
  2. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Soon enough we'll find out just how reliable these reliable sources are.

    Which will be important the next time around.
     
  3. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I used to get my mother to do mine in the Starfleet style in the early 80s. And after I grew them purposefully, I went to do the Andorian again - and had to race out and buy white pancake makeup to cover my pointed sideburns.

    Re TOS sideburns: There was supposedly a "studio barber" the actors were sent to, and I've also read interviews with Fred Phillips where he mentions trimming the sideburns in the makeup chair, but...

    Did you know that John Winston (Transporter Chief Kyle) was a professional Hollywood barber when not called in for acting work? A friend has a pet theory that he was probably Gene Coon's regular barber, since all(?) of Mr Kyle's episodes have Coon's credit on them. Perhaps John Winston was the barber who did all the Starfleet points for TOS, or was the go-to man whenever Desilu Studios needed a barber?

    I've tried to track down Mr Winston for interviews quite a few times: he is... elusive. Just after his ST II appearance, he was no longer registered with the Screen Actors' Guild. I know he did a ST fanfilm a few years ago, but he never did a "Starlog" interview. One of TOS and ST II's mystery men.

    (He even came here, to Australia, in the 70s and did an episode of "The Evil Touch", which our TV mags mentioned at the time.)
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, his hair was perfect.
     
  5. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which they seemed to trust enough to make such a big announcement. Even if it was a slow news day, Trek Movie report hasn't been on the ball with news that much in recent times but for something like this they were and seemed to be confirming the claim made by AICN rather than reporting it.

    Well that's one way to see it. Another way is that you see a bunch of people running away and screaming from something behind you then you might run with them too before turning around as you might consider some people to have some good sense and...journalistic integrity.


    She's an actress. People lie, the faster the less obvious they think it will be read. But i'm not saying she did lie or that there is a pink elephant behind her.


    So again i'm speculating that from the trailers we see a guy with superhuman strength. A guy named John Harrison, a background character who was featured in an episode called 'Space Seed' which was our introduction to Khan.
    Now just based on some of those things I can still speculate that it's Khan. I didn't just pull it out of my ass and outright proclaim that "it definitely is or isn't" because this is a movie where people's expectations will be played with and JJ Abrams is known for keeping things under wraps. I think a few red herrings will pop up from time to time.


    Actually it's not released here until September.
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What has that got to do with anything? :lol:
     
  7. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's fairly easy to do using one of these.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Enough of your fancy gadgets. I'm not just a traditionalist in the Trek sense, I'm a traditionalist when it comes to shaving, too. That means cream and a blade.
     
  9. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We do not use any of that caveman nonsense in the 23rd century, sir.
    We have a more evolved sensibility.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, but I don't trust them. They've been wrong before. The Internet is full of "reliably sourced" movie rumors that turn out to be total BS. And yet people keep forgetting all the false ones and bizarrely assuming they can trust the next one.


    That's an invalid rebuttal, because it doesn't fit the facts in this case. Yes, there have been some people -- mostly months ago -- saying it was Khan, but there have been plenty of other people saying other things, and the growing tide of assertions and evidence in recent months has been away from the Khan rumors. Yes, there was a time a few months ago when I was thinking it looked like it might actually be Khan, but since then, the trend has been in the other direction.

    And people run and scream from a lot of things without good sense. Last week I saw a lot of posts from people panicking about the risk of asteroids hitting the Earth, even though we know that large impactors are very rare. And yet those same people are probably not at all worried about things that are far more likely to kill them, like traffic accidents. The reactions and beliefs of the crowd are not reliable indicators of probability.


    But Khan wasn't the only Augment. To me, the most likely prospect at this point is that Harrison is a different Augment, that they're approaching the story of the Eugenics Wars and the Augments from a different perspective. It's possible that Khan will be involved in the background as a mastermind, or that maybe this story about Harrison will be setting up Khan as the big bad in the third film, the way The Avengers set up Thanos. There are a lot of possibilities here. An open mind lets you consider more possibilities. It's better than clinging to a single preconception and trying to twist everything to fit it.


    But we have the Internet now, and there's bound to be plenty of spoiler discussion once the film is out.
     
  11. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They've been wrong but they've been right about things like Vulcan going bye bye and the plans for an alternate timeline. I don't forget the false ones. But neither do I forget the real ones.



    Says the guy who brought up the pink elephant behind him.

    Totally agree but i'd rather be safe than sorry.


    That's a cool idea and it's just as awesome if it's so cos it still means we'll see Khan even if it's just the back of his head. However I don't think the term Augments will be even brought up here. I think it's a reference less people would know about generally. Doesn't mean they won't use it but I don't believe they'll be taking pointers from 'Enterprise'.



    I think i'll need to take a sabbatical around that time. The internet's going to be a freakin minefield!
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    "I told him that I could not only beam a grapefruit from one planet to the adjacent planet in the same system, which is easy by the way, I could do it with a lifeform. So, I tested it on Admiral Archer's prized beagle." -- Montgomery Scott, Star Trek (2009)

    Besides, "Augments" is a handy word. It's distinctive, it's memorable, and it's more convenient than "eugenics supermen" or whatever terms were around previously. So who cares where it comes from? I use it because it works.
     
  13. Mirror Sulu

    Mirror Sulu Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3XfCFSjNnUI/Sjwv6ch5pII/AAAAAAAACcs/_RCXC11bm70/s400/data-holmes.JPG

    [Image converted to link. Images posted inline must be hosted on your own web space, not hotlinked from someone else's. - M']

    Now let me see...there is literally no evidence to suggest Cumberbatch is playing Khan. He's English, he doesn't look anything like him, he's a member of Starfleet and he seems to have some sort of connection to Robert April. A few red herrings on websites isn't any sort of proof. Abrams and co. aren't idiots, they know the expectations fans have and that they're heavily debating everything.

    Everything related to Khan is pure assumption, even the claims that Paramount and Abrams can't keep the villains identity under wraps. The fact is most of you want it to be Khan so much, you're willing to overlook the plain facts, which is a classic example of clutching at straws. I've therefore deduced after looking at all the evidence, that Cumberbatch isn't Khan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2013
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Speak for yourself. According to TOS schools of the 23rd century still have ink wells, which Kirk teased Spock about dipping girls' ponytails into. If they're still doing that in the 23rd century, they must have razor blades and shaving cream. Canon is on my side.
     
  15. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I reject this so called official canon.
    My personal canon is more Pure and faithful to the Great Bird's true vision.
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Mr Mot's great great grandfather.
     
  17. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The actor is. We don't know if the character is.

    Plastic surgery.

    He's wearing a starfleet Uniform. But so did Khan in Space Seed.


    Pure assumption.


    and yet you haven't actually proven he isn't. Deduction needs to lead to a confirmation of facts.

    General Audience:

    "Archer" - "Oh yeah that captain that got his ass kicked on that cancelled show".

    "Augments" - "wtf is an augmert?"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2013
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I've met with Gene himself, he appears to me while I smoke a bong. I think I know what is pure and faithful to his vision.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, don't be ridiculous. Nobody knew what a Jedi was in 1977, but the movie defined the term. It's a fallacy that an audience can only understand a reference if they've seen some earlier work that used it. As long as the term is defined within the film itself, it can be understood, regardless of prior familiarity.
     
  20. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nobody will care what an augment is. They will care what JJ and Co call it, I don't think JJ and co will take pointers from 'Enterprise'. I think it's more likely to take something from Space Seed and TWOK.