Could "Star Wars" happen in the 23rd Century Mirror Universe?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Mars, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    Lets flip over to the Mirror Universe of the 23rd century, before Emperor Spock took over and turned it into a Republic, lets assume this version of the Mirror Universe is the counterpart to the Star Trek XI movie, in that everything that happened before The Star Trek Episode "Mirror Mirror" occured as per Star Trek cannon, but since we have a different Universe on the other side Kirk and others don't beam over to the ISS Enterprise as had happened in original Star Trek canon.

    Lets take this universe with the Terran Empire and ask the question, can this in anyway resemble Star Wars? There too we have an evil empire to deal with, The Terran Empire is smaller than the Galactic Empire of Star Wars, but it is certainly evil and human dominated like the other one was.

    The first step is to find a suitable desert planet orbiting a close binary within the Terran Empire. Well have to replace the Star Destroyer and the rebel ship with something close enough in the Star Trek Universe, and we need a princess that needs rescuing, and some heroes to rescue her, and perhaps an elderly vulcan as well living out on this desert as a hermit. Could this work? what do you think?
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    So tell Star Wars using Trek characters? Why?
     
  3. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    Because it would be fun, and it would showcase the similarities and differences between the milieus. And basically Star Trek Technology would force the story to go in a different direction, and its an amusing way to pass the time as well.

    Remember the opening scene in Star Wars IV A New Hope. Well I'm sure Star Trek has desert planets and double star systems, but we'd replace the Rebel ship with what and the Star Destroyer with what?

    Maybe the Star Destroyer gets replaces with a Constitution Class cruiser like the ISS Enterprise for example. The rebel ship is smaller than that, and there is phaser fire between the larger and smaller ships as well as photon torpedeos being exchanged, The Shields are knocked down in the smaller ship. The princess has to deliver her message to the reclusive vulcan living down on the planet's surface, but there are no droids available to deliver this message on. Well it appears she's going to have to beam down herself and deliver it in person or send someone else.

    the equivalent to Luke Skywalker is a half-vulcan similar to Spock, though much younger, he lives with his human aunt and uncle on their moisture farm. The half-vulcan as a consequence isn't very logical, hasn't been raised as a vulcan by his human foster family and is often mistaken for a Romulan, but he is a vulcan, and is developing telepathic powers as he matures. The princess is also half-vulcan as the two of them are twins.
     
  4. kythe

    kythe Commander Red Shirt

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    How would you explain the Force? I love both Star Trek and Star Wars, but I can't reconcile the two because there is nothing in Star Trek that resembles the Force.

    If I was to try to put both stories in the same universe, it would be to come up with a new storyline with new and interesting possibilities, not just rehash the same stuff. :)
     
  5. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    Star Trek has mind powers including in some cases Telekinesis, though in Star Trek Telekinesis is a really big deal. Remember that Gary Mitchel demonstrated Telekinesis. Spock can't move objects with just his mind alone, his mind powers is limited to telepathy, and only that at close range. Occompans such as the girl from Voyager had powers that might be comparable to a Jedi.
     
  6. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    I thought that what Trek 09 was.:rommie:
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think this one belongs in a crossover fanfic.
     
  8. Garrovick

    Garrovick Commander Red Shirt

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    Other than both being set primarily in space and the necessary use of spaceships, Star Wars and Star Trek really don't have that much in common. Certainly the technology is totally different, and the mental powers of Vulcans, Ocampans, etc. are in no way similar to the Force. Plus a major source of conflict in SW is the whole "light side/dark side" split and that definitely wouldn't fit into the Star Trek universe.

    If you had to twist Star Wars to shoehorn it into the Star Trek universe, then it really wouldn't be Star Wars anymore.
     
  9. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    You mean the Terran Empire is not the Dark Side?
     
  10. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The most important aspect of Star Wars is the Force, and the fact that some inhabitants can manipulat for their own purposes, and the religious sheen over this. (eternal conflict of good vs evil and all that).

    Either the Force does not exist in the Star Trek universe, or nobody knows how to use it, or if they do, theyre the Q and dont care about an eternal coflict of good vs evil.

    So sure, you could introduce the superficial elements of Star Wars into Star Trek, lightsabers and all that, but that's too trivial to be more than an fanficcy exercise.

    No, because there's no metaphysical/religious aspect to their evil. The closest Star Trek has gotten to the Dark Side concept is the Prophets vs pagh'wraith, with Sisko awkwardly retconned into a Chosen One figure.

    That was definitely getting Star Warsy, and the results weren't good. It came off as too shallow and contrived compared with the detailed, realistic and convincing political and character writing of the other storylines.


    In the sense that Star Wars set the style for all Hollywood popcorn action flicks forever after, you're right. Fans of The Avengers comic could just as easily level that charge at Joss Whedon. But really, its just the price any moviemaker must pay for entrance into the Top Ten box office. Would ou have preferred that Trek 09 had been a flop and killed the franchise for good?
     
  11. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Better than a WTF mutation catered for the average dumb, joe sixpack, since that's all that Hollywood caters to these days.
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There is a grain of truth to this one.
     
  13. FredH

    FredH Captain Captain

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    On the one hand, no, because the Force and the Jedi have no Trek-equivalent. You could shoehorn one in by drastically changing the history far in the past and having Vulcan Kolinahru or kironide-using Platonians to take on a starfaring role as Mystic Space Police, but that would make everything look very different anyway.

    On the other hand, you might argue that in the 24th century, DS9 basically did this already.
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    "Hollywood's" been catering to them since the silents. Just because we fondly recall the "good" stuff doesn't mean the majority of what was made back then was good, intelligent or high brow nor is there a sudden dearth of "high brow" films today.

    From TWOK forward, Trek films have had more action adventure content. Though TOS was an action adventure show with a fair amount of fights, explosions ( on a modest TV budget) and daring-do. Star Trek 09 is in keeping with that "tradition".
     
  15. Bagliun Edar

    Bagliun Edar Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I am still to see good reasons (save for time) as to how Star Wars and Star Trek cannot be merged and a story be told that's true ST and true SW. SW things could be just things never mentioned/known on ST and viceversa, or maybe known under different names.

    While it's true that the Force is a metaphysical thing for the Jedi, it could be just science for a ST-centered civilization. Subspace and hyperspace are not mutually contradicting. ST technology uses subspace technology while SW uses hyperspace technology. Both subspace and hyperspace can coexist.

    The real problem for a true SW/ST crossover is that the galactic civil war against the evil empire took place "a long time ago". How long ago? I'd guess it was thousands of years ago, but it could have been hundreds of years ago. So while ST takes place in our future, SW takes place in our past, maybe with thousands of years in between.
     
  16. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since any Star trek movie is going to be a dumb action-fest, because that's how movies are nowadays, unless they're fall-release Oscar bait, the alternative is no movie at all. So if you don't like it, you don't have to watch. You're not going to get the movie you want because nobody's going to fund it.

    The true value in Abrams' movies is that they increase the odds of Trek returning to TV from zero to something more than zero. Movies are a sea of stupidity, but there are some very smart and worthwhile TV shows on cable, and that's where Star Trek could be worthwhile again.

    Yeah, the movie wasn't dumb in the context of Star Trek movies as a whole, which are hardly either intellectual or great art, and compared with other recent action flicks, it comes off very well by comparison. But the core of the franchise was never movies, it was always TV. Star Trek needs to return to the medium it is adapted to. Two hours every few years isn't enough time to do much at all.
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Could you have a rebel alliance that opposes the Empire and seek to overthrow it, in order to (presumable) replace it with their own leaders? Sure.

    Could the rebels be mostly Humans, with only a smattering of non-Human aliens? Sure.

    Could one of the rebel leaders be a woman from a planet ruled by a royal family? Making her a princess? Sure.

    Could one of the planets in the Federation/Empire be a desert world that orbits one of the stars in a binary star system? Sure, Vulcan is a desert world so they do exist.

    Some things would be different, the Terran Empire is more than twenty-some years old, and the proceeding assemblage of worlds was far less than a thousand years old.

    Maybe not. The spacecraft is the Star Wars universe seem to be able to travel across their galaxy very quickly. One way they could do this is if the "galaxy farfar away" were very small in size, only several millions stars (as opposed to our galaxy's 300 billion stars). The area of the Milky Way that holds the Federation/Empire in the 24th century might actually be bigger than the entire Star Wars galaxy.

    Personally, I would have preferred that Star Trek "Eleven" had stayed true to the general established themes of Star Trek's several hundred hours of history. Changing Star Trek into Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Titanic, or whatever simply in order to achieve box office is a less desirable end.

    Yes Temis, if you alter it heavily enough, you can make a generic summer movie with girls in their underwear and lots of explosions and in the end the slacker who got it right once gets a big reward with out trying very hard. Despite the title, that isn't Star Trek.

    And maybe I would like a smaller fall/winter movie, with a smaller budget, more interesting characters and fewer special effects. If the end result is that it is what it says it is.

    Star Trek

    :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Thing is Star Trek contains multitudes. There is no one type of Star Trek story. TOS especially produced every type of story imaginable. ST09 is as much a Star Trek story as The Trouble With Tribbles, Spock's Brain and City On the Edge of Forever.
     
  19. Mars

    Mars Commander Red Shirt

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    A long time ago from when? If it was a long time ago from a point that's a long time in the future, the Star Wars Galaxy could be our own galaxy in the distant future. Basically its another way of saying "Once upon a time".
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    Do a little research.