Could I become a Niner? hmmm....

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by GalaxyX, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So something pretty shocking has happened.

    I decided to watch DS9 from the beginning again.

    I've seen it once. I think I've mostly seen every episode but could have missed a few.

    Anyway I did not have a high opinion of the show and considered it to be the anti TNG (My favorite series)

    Now as an older, wiser (hopefully) guy, I think I can watch it and give it a chance again.

    I'm actually watching it with my dad, who is a huge TOS fan, so we'll test this whole "DS9 is the most TOSesque series" of all the current series.


    So far I saw the 1st two episodes.

    I think I know why I hated this show originally. I'm sorry but these actors have no idea of what subtlety means.

    So far all of them are failing in their acting roles. Sisko comes across as loud and imposing, even when we are supposed to learn that he has left his anger behind (He no longer lives in the moment of his wife's death). I hope he improves, but I don't remember him getting any better.

    Kira is supposed to be this tortured and beaten soul that has endured horrible Cardassian treatment. Nana Visitor apparently doesn't know how to get this across. Her take so far is "Be angry and bitchy at everyone, and get into fights to take out that anger on someone, anyone"

    Bashir? Wow, I would consider him to be my favorite character, yet I'm already pissed he keeps chasing after Jadzia. I'd get in there and smack him already "Dufus!! She doesn't want you!! fuck off already!!":klingon:

    Jadzia so far has not been as annoying as I remember her. The actress (Terry Farell?) is trying to do that stoic, wise "Spock like" take but she can't. Not sure what it's coming across as yet.

    Anyway, we'll see how it goes once I watch more of the series.
     
  2. garaks the best

    garaks the best Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Hopefully it will grow on you, i love it the best out of the treks but can see why others might not. Your next episode has my favourite character garak showing up.:)
     
  3. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, that is how some people respond to trauma. But I'm sure with you re Bashir.

    Enjoy your re-watch!
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Remember you have to give post-TOS Trek a season to warm up.
     
  5. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    Yeah, the acting is pretty stiff in the first season and bad at times but once you get into the middle of the series I think you'll be impressed. I have a feeling deep down inside every hardcore TNG'er is a secret Niner inside. DS9 is a wild ride. Bonus if you are already a fan of Worf.

    Keep your eyes on Odo. He's an excellent character and unlike the others, I think Odo was playing quite well from day 1 by Rene. He did a terrific job of shapeshifting Odo into a classic Trek icon.

    Once really nice thing about DS9 in particular is that the strength lies in the ensemble cast. And the stories vary considerably: serious Bajoran religious stories, exciting Starfleet-driven battles and silly Ferengi outings. The feel of the show could be radically different from week to week... I always found that refreshing.
     
  6. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Everything gets better and better - the acting, the chemistry, the characters and their arcs, relationships, ongoing stories and layers, even the hair, makeup and wardrobe improve.
     
  7. Sigokat

    Sigokat Commander Red Shirt

    I watched DS9 straight through. It actually became my favorite Trek series and made me realize (for me at least) how boring, stale, and lame TNG is.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The acting in S1 of DS9 is stiff but it is miles better than S1 of TNG. It was Trek done a little differently so it would take time for the PtB to get how to run a space station show as opposed to a starship show.

    Sisko does have some issues with his temper, despite being an "evolved human being", but he isn't meant to be Picard, he has a fair bit of emotional baggage to deal with. I will forever love him as the man who punched Q--something I wished they'd done in Encounter at Farpoint, put him in his proper place.

    Kira I never saw as being a "tortured and beaten soul", but someone who was resentful of the Cardassians and then the Federation. She's not Starfleet so her first priority is Bajor, making it strong again after 50 years of the planet and people being brutalised, whilst living with all she did as a terrorist since she was in her early teens.

    Bashir I wasn't a fan of in the beginning, because he came across as a know it all. But there are loads of characters on TV who pine after an unattainable woman, so its hardly anything new. He does get far better as the series goes on.

    Dax is an interesting one. They obviously wanted her to be the wise, old sage trapped in a young, attractive body, but then they decided to make her more of an adventurer, to really embrace all that she has from being Joined. It can be explained away by having it she wasn't Joined for long before the series started and so was still getting used to the process (that's what I do anyway :)).

    My advice: stick with it. No series gets everything right in S1 and some still have a few issues into S2 as well, but DS9 just gets better and better, building up great story arcs, a wonderful cast of recurring characters, and very well developed main characters.
     
  9. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thank god :lol: The cinematography and lighting noticeably improve as well. Hell...it all just gets so much better.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    lurok. Is that a man playing in a giant alien fish head?
     
  11. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is Mr Peter Weller and a mugwump from Naked Lunch.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :: makes a little note ::
     
  13. Slyvon

    Slyvon Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I hope you stick with it, Ds9 gets very very good. Espescially as the cast expands to all the interesting side characters. Ds9 handles a huge cast quite well in the later seasons.

    And you're right, everyone calms down into season two! ;)
     
  14. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well to be fair S1-2 aren't DSN at it's best, but then again on average it is better than S1-2 of TNG. Both DSN and TNG had a rather lacklustre first couple of seasons.
     
  15. GameOn

    GameOn Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    DS9 is my favourite Star Trek series but season 1 was pretty boring with the exception of a couple of episodes. Season 2 is a bit of an improvement and by the season half of that season the story telling and characterisation are noticeably better. Season 3 is when DS9 really comes into its own with the looming threat of the Dominion and the introduction of the Defiant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  16. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    Season 3 will blow your mind. It's important Trek, dammit! ;)
     
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think seasons one and two are bad: they are more like middle of the road TNG. There are some stories that would have been pretty good as part of another program, but instead highlighted how DS9 wasn't yet on solid ground. Nonetheless, there are about 12-16 good episodes that the rest of the series will be built on, particularly those that establish longterm relationships with Cardassians.
     
  18. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    The great strength of DS9 was its stationary setting (no pun intended). TNG kept flying off on new adventures every week; DS9, but nature, was forced to keep revisiting the same themes, races, and storylines a lot more often.

    Once the writers began to embrace this rather than trying to write alien-of-the-week tales, the show really improved.
     
  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I see Kira at the beginning as somebody who sees the Federation as another occupying force. So it's not be hostile toward everyone, it's directed at the Federation and Cardassia. In her mind at the beginning of the episode, all large foreign powers are the same. It's through her interaction with humans in the first season that she really learns the Federation isn't going to do anything to Bajor against Bajor's will or make them into a puppet state.

    I do think TNG and DS9 are very similar series, or at least more similar to each other than any other two Trek series. TNG's more optimistic and idealized, DS9's more socially realistic, but the two shows have pretty much the same story logic.
     
  20. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hey guys.

    All good points. I just finished watching the Garak episode.

    I remember the first time I saw it, it looked like Garak was ganging up on Bashir (like a lion ganging up on a mouse).

    This time around it didn't seem so one sided for some reason.

    As for Kira as a character, sure I understand what you guys are saying, and I completely agree. The problem it seems to me, is that Nana Visitor did not understand how to give that character some nuance.

    If you ever see people who have PTSD, they tend to have short bursts of anger, but mixed in with other things, like paranoia and fear, etc etc.

    So far, it seems that Nana was being told that "This character has suffered a great deal! amp up that anger to 11!!" and the way she does it is so forced.

    I agree that S1 TNG acting was pretty bad as well, but honestly, Patrick Stewart carried that show for the first 2 seasons. Riker and Troi never improved either, they just became Frakes and Sirtis for most of the series.

    Rene Auberjonois (sp?) is the gem so far. He's an excellent actor in a character that for me was completely wasted in potential.

    We'll see how things roll along. My dad so far is liking it. I had him see all the Cardassian and Bajoran TNG episodes to prime him for the whole Cardassian angle.

    Edit: I forgot Armin Shimerman (sp?) deserves props as well. I liked his character the last time round. He's the thief with a heart character.