Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by The Overlord, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm happy for you exodus!

    This place is cud.
     
  2. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Shouldn't time heal wounds?

    Thanks.
    I'm honestly still surprised to find you here.
    I thought you would have gotten bored with it by now.
     
  3. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Lol that is so funny, and I'm exactly like that. I can get very emotional about fictional characters. I don't understand how people don't care. I mean, if you don't care, why do you bother watching/reading? How much can you enjoy a story without emotional investment?
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I like the people. Something always makes me laugh. We have a good time :)
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ..but close to a decade later after the show is over is still along time to still have an emotional investment, no? Especially something like hurt feelings. Why hold onto bad feelings? Why would you want to continue to be mad at a TV show? If you didn't like Kes being bitter, why hold onto emotions that would twist you that way too?
     
  6. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Some wounds never heal.
    Seriously though, the novels moved Kes's story forward and did a lot of damage control with Kes, but we are discussing Fury, and this is how I feel about it.
    A bad story in the middle of a story arc can be overlooked and forgotten, but a bad story at the end of a story arc is going to stick. Kes is my favorite Voyager character (Although Janeway is a close second, and I'm also very fond of the Doctor and Seven - the latter with reservations) so Fury is more of a bone of contention to me than it would be for other fans who have other favorites.
    I guess I'll care as long as I care about Voyager. Which will probably be as long as I live I'd say. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the rest of the series, and the novels.
     
  7. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ok. I guess I'll never understand that. If it's not personal, stuff like Kes and Fury doesn't bother me.
    Out of nine(?) characters, what made Kes your favorite?
     
  8. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I don't understand what you mean by "If it's not personal".
    I like that Kes is kind, sweet and gentle, but has unexpected reservoirs of strength. She had a different pov than the other characters who are older, more wordly and cynical. I liked the story arc of her mysterious mental abilities. I like the limitation of her short lifespan, and how she lived the time she did have to the fullest without self pity. I hated that she left, but overall even her exit wasn't too bad, she left Voyager only because she had to, to save everyone else, and there is a sense of wonder at her ascension to a higher form of existence.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She was kind of like a butterfly.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It would be personal if we worked on the set of Star trek Voyager or if we were imaginary characters inside the story of Star Trek Voyager.

    Fanatical infatuation with imaginary make believe shite is creepy and unhealthy.
     
  11. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Stuff like "Fury is an insult to Kes fans." and the implications that it was done on purpose. That's what I mean about fans making it personal. Why would anyone think the writers sat down a wrote a story with the intent of purposing pissing the viewers off? Not to mention the script after being written had to meet with approval, so how can ALL involved agree to that? It was just story that sounded good on paper but felt apart on execution. Hell, bad editing of scenes could have ruined it as well.


    As for how you see Kes, I see her that way too.
    My disppointment with her I think is also similar to yours as well, I believe. I think they dropped the ball with her and never really fleshed her out enough. While I admired her wisdom, I think they made her know to much too son. I felt it hard to see much growth in her development if she seemed to already be wise enough to know it all. I think she deserved a better job than a nurse. Why stick the the person that's never seen ANYTHING in her life in the one room with no windows AND with one person that can't even leave the room? They gave her great powers but then wrote her to be scared to keep using them. "Before & After" showed that she grew up to be nothing that she couldn't have become on Ocampa. That's disappointing and says too me, they never had a game plan for her beyond the first few episodes.
     
  12. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I loved Kes's relationship with the Doctor, she saw him as a sentient being, no questions or reservations, even before he started thinking of himself that way. Being a nurse didn't have to be a limitation though, she could've been the primary medical personnel on away mission since for a long time the Doctor couldn't leave sickbay.
    Kes should've had more maturing to do, but her development still came and could've come in different directions. Her outgrowing Neelix was a move in the right direction. She could've gone on to have a relationship with Paris, even had the baby we saw her have in The Year of Hell.
    I find it a little offensive to basicly be told I'm creepy and unhealthy for caring about Kes. If we're not supposed to care about the characters, why are any of us even here? It's an easy insult to shut down someone's opinions it seems like.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Caring, and its boyfriend Over Caring are what makes fandom fun. Fandom plays around with all these characters like they're for realsies, because it draws us as viewers into a less passive relationship with the story.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, the saying is 'time wounds all heels'. :shifty:
    Though some emotional scars heal over time. My parents died over 40 years ago, but it doesn't hurt as much now.
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never called you creepy or unhealthy nor do I consider you such, Guy implied it.
    If I was trying to shut down an opinion, I wouldn't be asking you why you enjoy the character and continued to speak to you about her.
     
  16. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I should have quoted Guy, but that's who I was referring to. Sorry if I led you to think I was directed my remark to you exodus, that wasn't my intention.
     
  17. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's cool. :)


    Anyway, back too Kes......

    I don't know about the Tom/Kes relationship.
    If Kes with Neelix is joked about as pedophilia, why isn't Tom/Kes also?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    By being offended by the creepy stigma you chose to accept the fanatical infatuation label.

    Would you say that you "care" for the character or that you are "fanatically infatuated"?

    I didn't say that caring is creepy, I said fanatical infatuation is creepy.

    I say that you are fanatically infatuated if you own more than ten Kes T-Shirts.

    Of course others would say that you are fanatically infatuated if you've seen more than Ten episodes of Star trek.

    There's a spectrum between getting drunk watching the Rugby, and sitting down to devour the season 4 DS9 Boxset over a week end, and the people at either end have very little respect for each other.
     
  19. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ....or you could just say: "Sorry if what I said offended you.":shrug:
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yesterday, you were nice.

    One day here and it's back to Lord of the Flies.