Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by The Overlord, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just finished watching the episode.

    The Doctor was deactivated when he asked why there were two Keses, but Kes, Tuvok and the Captain entered into a secret conspiracy to save the future and save B'Elanna (Tuvok had a vision of her death). Kes was mostly asleep as gammy Kes dragged her to the shuttle bay, but she would have had full access to what happened after the fact.

    The corpse was not disintergrated, but if it wasn't given to the Doctor, what happened to it?

    Having her first strike (both times) during Tuvok's birthday makes me wonder if Gammy Kes saw that as the last straw for some crazy reason?
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She did share some empathic times with Tuvok, maybe she was deeply jealous of how many more umpteen decades of life he got to live than her.
     
  3. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the birthday was just a happy day that she remembered, now thru a veil of bitterness. Like she hated how happy she was after she decided that the happiness was a lie.
     
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The pathetic creature we saw in that horrible excuse for a Star Trek episode was so totally out of character that it must have been a being from a mirror universe.

    In fact, the whole episode was out of character and looked like something being written by a lunatic.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I still think it's weird that she would have to spend thousands of light years chasing Voyager down, just to get thrown back 40 thousand light years towards Ocampa.

    There was this time in Red Dwarf when they time travelled to the 16th century. Of course they were still in deep space 3 million years from Earth, but it was still 3 million years from Earth in the 16th century.
     
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If she had dementia then her actions and reasons wouldn't be logical.

    Generally speaking; I'm tired of the "she wouldn't do that cause it's out of character" excuses, as if dementia is a life choice. As if someones content of character wards it off. It's as absurd as it is offensive to those that actually do suffer from it.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Remember all those times drugs, spores, viruses and alien worms caused Trek folk to go bonkers? It's like that.
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the Borg using Seven as a sleeper agent makes more sense than them going from an extreme interest in tech. suddenly believing in the supernatural.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You misunderstand, it's not that what the crazy lady did, it's that what the crazy lady did worked.

    Of course last night I figured out that she wove a cocoon around the warp core and a harnessed herself to it physically, but out of phase, so that no one saw her as she travelled backwards through time in engineering.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It took you how many years later? :lol:
    j/k:p


    Between "Coldfire", "Fury","Scorpion" & "YoH", I got the impression that Braga was a big Marvel comics fan.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Putting into words what Braga did doesn't make the fake imaginary science anyless bad.

    Also it's what Teal'c did in the last Stargate SG1.

    Jean Grey is back from the dead again.

    Sorta.

    After Cyclops killed Professor X last year at the climax of Avengers vs X-Men, Hank McCoy decided to A Christmas Carol Scott Summers by introducing 16 year old Cyclops X-Man freshhman to 36 year old Criminal Mutant terrorist best buddies with Magneto. Shit happened and the original X-Men, 16 year old Jean Grey included, are "stuck" in the present for hte forseeable "present".

    I remember the Dark Kes scenes where the corridors are exploding to have lasted longer and look less fake.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was laughing my head off the first time I saw Fury.
     
  13. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, it's not.

    In all other episodes where Trek characters go nuts, they are restored back to normal. Kes wasn't.

    And I don't buy the ridiculous crap talk about dementia either. In "The Gift" she was turned to some sort of energy being which obviously is the highest level for an Ocampa. Now, why should she return back to a previous level and on top of that return as a crazy old wreck. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention that, as such an energy being, she shouldn't age at all.

    And I still can't see the point in bringing back a character which was dumped three years later and which they had did all they could to make us forget, only to ridicule, humiliate and destroy that character. It doesn't make sense either.

    teacake wrote:
    I didn't, despite being warned about the episode by some American friends.

    I got so angry that I was very cloes to throw the TV out of the window. Only sheer greed (TV:s are a bit expensive) and some concern about the people on the street below stopped me from doing that.

    Plus the fact that I would rather have smashed my old bulky TV over Braga's or Fuller's head instead.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Susperior's Ocampa flitted between extradimensional beings and (4)dimensional beings at whim, which would suggest that neither state is completely better than the other and both still contian merits over the other.

    A vulgar thought came to me the other day.

    The cloud had a shit, and that shit is who we met in Fury.

    In Twins they described Arnie as the perfect man, and all the junk DNA got pared off and made Danny DiVito... Similar to that, but invoiolving a space toilet.

    If she wasn't back to normal, they wouldn't have let her go.

    If Kes really did have as much issues with her memories as we think, after a light year or two, she could have forgotten her attack on Voyager, turned around and made another run at them thinking it was the first time again... Consideirng she should be too powerful to kill (A hand phaser? GFY Braga.) pushing grammy Kes off in one direction and then running in the opposite as soon as her back is turned seems like a fine alternative to blowing up a sun to "get her".

    But sincerly she was not in a fit mental state to pilot star ship.
     
  15. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I pretty much agree with all this. Kes shouldn't have aged, I never really got why she wasn't still an evolved energy being anymore. I care too much about Kes to find this episode funny. Kes getting a brutal character assasination made me angry, and it still does.
    For what it's worth though, the Voyager novels String Theory trilogy goes a good job of fixing this mess.
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They explained where Kes went and that Ocampia who went there still age in "Coldfire". Remember he told her when Ocampans reach the full potential of their mental abilities they could visit a place of pure thought called "Xoshia", the Ocampa who told her that was also 15 years old and standing before her as flesh and blood.

    Besides, this eps was years ago.
    Show is long over and the cast and crew have long moved on in their lives.
    Why are people here the only ones still holding on to hurt feelings longer than people mourn the dead?
    You folks are talking about this like a real crime was committed and like Kes is real.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Something has changed about you.

    Medication or new lover?
     
  18. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can't see spending much time talking about the show if I didn't care about it.
    I am passionate about the books, shows and movies that I love. I either love it passionately and take it to heart, or I'm completely apathetic. I don't do a lot of middle ground. Why would I waste time on something I don't care that much about?
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know how Peter David killed Janeway in that awful book? I will be talking about that in my nursing home. And my children will pat my hand and whisper to the nurse to hurry up with the medication.
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, my life has gotten much better.
    Thank you, while nothing here has changed a day.