Could Fury have worked with a rewrite?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by The Overlord, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No one plans to go crazy.

    And after you go crazy, nonsense becomes reasonable.

    If Kes wasn't suffering from dementia, if she was still sane, and still acted like that, then that would be out of character, but insanity changes your character.

    Okay here's a question.

    If Kes was kookoo for cocoa puffs, why did they put her behind the controls of a Starship and push her off into space?

    That's right up there with friends don't let friends drink and drive.

    Would you really let you grammy who keeps putting gold fish in the tea kettle drive her car to the shiops for groceries?

    Sounds like a mercy killing to me.
     
  2. Bad Atom

    Bad Atom Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting timing, "Fury" just came up in my series rewatch and I didn't skip it this time. It actually reminds me a lot of ENT's "These Are The Voyages" in dubious intent and sloppy execution.
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't say it's that bad. Of course that's like saying a slap in the face is better than a kick in the balls. ;)
     
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not to mention a spit in the face which that episode was to the Kes fans. :(
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As I said, I'm rather indifferent to Kes myself so I was slightly amused at the concept of her just randomly showing up to blow crap up.

    But yeah... if you're going to bring back an old character you're appealing to the percentage of fans who were fond of that character. The rest don't care or don't know who she was. So going out of your way to assassinate said character is... silly at best.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The uniqueness of humanity and the special uniqueness of certain members of humanity is a Star Trek trope I could do without.
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Since a lot of Star Trek aliens are just symbols for human traits, humans are only special because they combine all of those traits into one big mess of a species.
     
  8. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hate that line about Spock being the most human.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "The Federation is a homo-sapiens only club." Lotta truth to that one.
     
  10. davidant32

    davidant32 Commodore Commodore

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  11. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, I think a rewrite would have helped greatly.
    I agree with those that said her senility should have been more closely.
    The whole time travel element throws the episode off.
    They should keep the whole fury aspect of the story as an example of someone who is loosing their mind, it is a form of dymentia after all.
    I think it would have been a great story that's never really be touched upon in sci-fi, how do you care for someone with Kes' mental abilities once they do get old and forgetful? I think the ending should have been the same, too save Kes they would have to send her back to Ocampia.
     
  12. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek is about adventures and exploring space, not about diseases and mental illness. There are plenty of programs about such items in each and every channel for those who are interested.

    Not to mention the various doom-and-gloom series who seem to be the trend of the recent times when it comes to series of all sorts. A lot to choose among for those who like such series.

    If they absolutely want to turn Star Trek into a hypochondriac's wet dream, something about diseases and illness, there are more suitable candidates to be a victiom of such items than Kes who probably would be the last one to go insane on that ship.

    And I still can't see the reason to bring back a character which was dumped during dubious circumstances and which they have put down a lot of efforts to make us forget, only to ridicule, humiliate and ultimately destroy the character, thus showing a finger in the faces of the fans of that character.
     
  13. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not sure that it would be socially responsible to show a dementia patient being so dangerous though, there's already enough stigma about the condition.
    Also, the flashbacks with young Kes were the only part of the episode I did like! Still, even that would've been a lot better than what we got.
    I'd have rather not have had Kes return at all than the character assasination story we got. At least they were talked out of killing her off.
     
  14. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Dementia patients aren't psychokenetic.
    That factor alone sets apart from any actual real life scenario.
     
  15. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You don't have to call it dementia, you just give it some alien name. The time of Pah Somethingorother. Then everyone can nod along.
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They already did, it was called the Mor Elogium.
    In "Before & After" when everyone thought old Kes was talking gibberish, her daughter and the Doc had concluded that dementia was a symptom of it.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if free will was at work, sure, I'd believe that.

    But Kes watched Janeway shoot her older self self dead, and she still tried to kill everyone when season 6 came around again, despite already talking herself out of it as a young girl.

    Maybe a memory wipe/stroke rebooted her causality from a later point in her life post cloud, but I thoroughly suspect foul play where she was programmed like a weapon to destroy Voyager in the present and then the past by some dark interest.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're remembering incorrectly.
    Kes was drugged up and passed out on the floor.
    She never saw Janeway kill her olderself. As a matter of fact, she never "saw" her olderself at all. ;-)
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Are you forgetting that the reset button is not real?

    Kes didn't have to see the murder to know that it happened because she was there on the ship for the next 3 years in the wake of the murder where Janeway couldn't make eye contact with the little girl, and even had to record a message to herself, when she is older and insane trying to kill everyone which hopefully will curb her inescapable predestined illogical killer instinct.

    Was there a corpse, or did Janeway disintegrate Old Kes?
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Don't be foolish, Guy.
    Nothing we talk about here is real.


    Janeway ordered to crew to lie to the Doc for years about his breakdown and they all looked him in the eye everyday knowing it. You really think they wouldn't do the same to Kes?