Conjecture: StarFIREs

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Wingsley, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    In TMP 6, THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, Rene Auberjonois portrayed the character named West, who wore a Starfleet uniform but who held the rank of colonel. In ENT, the introduction of Earth MACOs seemed to echo the notion of some kind of "Marine detachment" aboard a starship.

    I've occasionally rolled the idea around in my head, trying to think how it would've worked in the post-ENT Federation.

    Here's the (admittedly vague) conjecture I came up with:

    StarFIREs - Starfleet Itinerant Regiments and Expeditions. StarFIREs are a subsidiary of the Federation Starfleet. They are, in fact, Starfleet personnel. Starfleet Command's naval structure is the superior organization. StarFIREs exist as either as small units (ship's "Marine detachment") or as mission-specific "ground forces" (like "Sea Bees" or "ground troops", or other expeditionary forces. While is space, StarFIREs can function inside ordinary Starfleet naval protocol, with StarFIRE personnel acting as an on-board-ship/station detachments. Titles and ranks/ratings while in space may tilt toward naval conventions. Once in planetary orbit or upon making planetfall, StarFIRE personnel may switch to a more "army" or "air force" -like conventions. (A petty officer may be referred to as a "platoon sergeant".) Uniforms would be similar to Starfleet naval units, but there would be visible differences to distinguish them.

    So why haven't we seen more of them? Well, it seems to me that ground operations in most TOS, TNG and VOY eps were about civilian colonists or Starfleet starbases. DS9 did give us a taste of what could have been StarFIREs in "The Seige of AR-558". But it was never made clear what those ground forces were. So maybe the abscence of evidence does not mean the evidence of abscence.

    More to come.
     
  2. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the ground forces in DS9 are explicitly Starfleet officers? In AR-558 it's pretty clear they are under Starfleet control, with Stafleet officers commanding them. I suppose there's leeway if you like, and you aren't the first to propose some Federation marines.

    For what it's worth, I've always seen "Colonel" West as something of a nickname. He's really an admiral, but everyone knows him as the Colonel because of his crusty, no-nonsense militarism.

    He's finger lickin' good.
     
  3. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe "Colonel" is his first name, like the actor "Judge Reinhold"?
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, if we keep systematic, the President of the UFP always addressed his underlings by their names - surnames or given names - and never by rank or position.

    Thus, we are probably dealing with a guy named Cornell West here, rather than with a guy named West who carries the rank of Colonel...

    In all of Star Trek so far, there's not been a hint of a separate ground force for the UFP military arm. Then again, there hasn't been much in the way of ground action, so it's difficult to say if such a separate force might exist somewhere in the deep shadows.

    Note, however, that Starfleet really seems to do everything. Not just the sort of ground fighting that involves starships, or errands like disaster relief, but also 100% of known law enforcement work within the UFP. There probably are special divisions within the all-encompassing mother organization for these varied tasks, but there's no evidence that such divisions would carry special ranks, or wear special uniforms.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Longinus

    Longinus Captain Captain

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    Starfires? Really? :rolleyes:

    I have always hated the idea of Starfleet Marines. It just seems far too militaristic.

    I assume each member world has its own ground forces, may they be just some sort of a militia or police force, or a full fledged army. Joint contingents from these armies might on occasion form a task force, a bit like UN Peacekeepers, or NATO forces.
     
  6. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    Ahem,

    Who said they had to be explicitly militaristic "Marines"? :rolleyes:

    If you look at what I originally posted above, the StarFIREs concept says they would be part of Starfleet.
     
  7. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Brother Cornel?

    :lol:
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  9. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    :vulcan:

    Somehow, that just doesn't seem to be the right role for Rene Auberjonois...

    :rommie:
     
  10. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    To clarify what I suggested earlier, and maybe to shed some light on how the StarFIREs concept could blend into the Federation, consider Kirk's stay on Neural, as well as McCoy's stay on Capella IV. During those times, it is readily assumed that both characters were Starfleet personnel, but it is not clear in what capacity they served. If memory serves, this would be before Lt. Kirk's encounter with the Tycho IV cloud creature.

    So maybe Kirk was already serving as an officer aboard the Farragut, or maybe this was before that. The whole point of this concept is that Kirk (and McCoy) was given a ground assignment: to study the natives of a specific planet by living there for a certain period of time. It was a kind of exploratory mission. The notion of StarFIREs is that this is what the assignment is called, and how the personnel are organized. Clearly, missions like these are not your ordinary, garden-variety naval landing party. Kirk could've served in the StarFIREs briefly as his first expeditionary command before being assigned to the Farragut's bridge.
     
  11. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And loading torpedoes, blowing boatswain whistles, having court martials and waging wars doesn't seem militaristic?

    THe one thing people miss when they talk about concepts being to militaristic is that the Federation is surrounded on all sides by beligerent powers.

    I would expect the Federation to field something similar to a Marine Corps or for Starfleet to have their own special Navy Seals type guys. Heck, considering that one of Stafleet's main (never mentioned, but often seen) roles seems to be colonial support, having highly mobile ground dudes who know how to control a situation on the ground could prove highly beneficial durring peacetime as well.

    I'd think of such a group of dudes as the guys who do all the dirty work so that the Starfleet guys aren't too busy to explore space and unleash ancient sealed evil in a can and other things those pesky spacers do.

    One must keep in mind that as time goes on, military organizations take on more and more and more non-combat support roles. I wouldn't expect a Federation equivalent to Marines to actually resemble a modern Marine Corps unless war were declared.

    Or something.

    That probably made little sense.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And is one itself, of course.

    But "Marine Corps" is a needlessly separate organization for large scale ground fighting with an amphibious/space-to-planet attack bias, while Navy Seals is small potatoes, a special force. One might suspect there would exist a large ground fighting force that either isn't separate from Starfleet at all (merely a division of it, just like Medical or Sciences is), or is an entirely separate force and not a mere Corps within Starfleet.

    In other words, the Federation might have an Army.

    Plus all sorts of "Navy Seals", of course - but we've already seen that sort of concentration of special skills within Starfleet proper, without the need for a gung-ho special force with a catchy separate name.

    Of course, it may be that an Army is an outdated idea in the 24th century, and that ground forces are just as useless then as cavalry is today. But while we can't really know one way or another, we do hear large numbers of troops moved around in the Dominion war - suggesting that they still have something worthwhile to do.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, taking a planet by ground seems more beneficial than bombarding it into submission, since you'd capture it with infrastructure still intact and no damage to its habitable regions. Or something. Of course, you still have to use a ship to get there, which of course ties up somebody's ships. So, a ground force would either need to hitch a ride with Starfleet or have their own vessels. This is assuming either they're a seperate force or part of Starfleet.
     
  14. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    While I'm sure this is a very fine argument to have, this isn't really what this thread is about. The StarFIREs concept isn't really meant as strictly some kind of "Federation army". Rather, it is meant to show how Starfleet can deploy personnel on planetary assignments. There would be some similarities to the Sea Bees, and some to the Marines or Army, but this is not a separate "branch of the service".
     
  15. Longinus

    Longinus Captain Captain

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    In any case, StarFIREs is painfully cheesy name.
     
  16. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Something similar I came up with awhile back:

    Technical Assesment and Contact Team (TACT)

    Mission - A rapidly deployable team of personnel who can be sent to a newly contacted alien vessel, society, what have you to facilitate first contact with indiginous beings, and asses their level of technological achievement.

    Personnel: Two officers trained in first contact methodologies/strategies as well as diplomatic protocols. Should also be grounded in at least the generalities of some scientific/technical field(s). In addition, eight non-commissioned officers (Petty Officers or Chief Petty Officers). These personnel are highly trained specialists, two each in the following field specilization areas:

    Weapons/Defense - serve as force protection for the team as well as to evaluate defense/offense technology being encountered.

    Communications/Linguistics - keeps the team in contact with base as well as facilitating communication with aliens encountered.

    Medical/Bio-Sciences - Evaluate species encountered to determine physical make-up, and to determine and act upon any bio threat posed by the team to the aliens, or by the aliens to the team.

    Engineering - Evaluate spacecraft and other technological systems being encountred.


    This gives a total team of ten personnel. The duplication in skill-sets enables the team to be split into two five-person teams to be ablse to cover a larger area in less time if necessary (I've based this loosely on the organization of present-day US Army Special forces (i.e. "green beret") teams.

    On larger vessels these personnel would be a seperate department or division permanently assigned to the ship. On smaller ships, these personnel might have other collateral duties onboard, but be called to act as a team for specific missions. Or, there might be a number of permanently formed TAC teams assigned to various strategicly located bases or outposts around UFP space to be deployed as is needed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  17. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    Whoa! We can't allow ourselves to be tasteless around here...

    Now that's much more TACTful!
     
  18. Data Holmes

    Data Holmes Admiral Admiral

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    I always just assumed that it was an aspect of the security corps of star fleet.

    I've adapted the "Star Fleet Security Corps" around the concept of three. The corps are divided into three branches: Military, Law Enforcement, Special.

    The Star Fleet Security Corps Military Branch (SFSC-MB), or Mobile Ground Force (MGF), is headed by the Commandant of the Mobile Ground Force (CommMGF) and is comprised of three divisions, Infantry, Cavalry, and Support. The Infantry division handles both the Heavy "mech" infantry as well as the "light" infantry. The Cavalry division handles all "craft" from fighters, to transports, to shuttles, to ground craft. The support division handles logistics, supply, ect.

    The MGF, is organized into smaller regionally allocated units. The smallest unit is the Mobile Expeditionary Unit, or MEU. One of these units is deployed to the subquadrent command station embarked on a heavy frigate. The next unit is the Mobile Expeditionary Brigade, or MEB, and the largest unit is the Mobile Expeditionary Force. The MEF is rarely fielded outside of the event of war, as the sheer number of SAS (Surface Action Specialists) comprising the MEF requires a Shuttle carrier to transport the unit as a whole. In past cases where a MEF was fielded, multiple ships were required to deliver the force to target which added to the complexity and danger of the deployment mission.

    The Star Fleet Security Corps Law Enforcement Branch (SFSC-LEB), or Fleet Security, is headed by the Inspector General of Star Fleet. It is broken down into different units. The largest is the Ship Control Police. These are the security specialists who make up the security detachments aboard all star fleet vessels. Next largest is the Shore Marshalls. They operate as starbase security teams, as well as functioning as Planetary Marshalls and Colonial police until local Law Enforcement agencies can be established. The third and smallest unit of this branch is the Federation and Fleet Penal Personnel. These specialists operate as guards at star fleet and Federation prisons and holding facilities.

    The Star Fleet Security Corps Special Operations Branch (SFSC-SOB), or Special Operations, is a collection of independent teams/units that conduct specialized operations. Some of these units include the Special Tactics and Rescue Specialists (STARS) and Special Operations Commandos (SOC) teams, these teams are special warfare units. The 15th Cavalry detachment (Star Stalkers), are the unit tasked to provide aerospace support for Special Operations Branch forces. The ISG (Intelligence Support Group) a unit which conducts Special Reconnaissance to collect actionable intelligence in advance of missions by other Special Operations Branch forces. The Star Fleet Internal Affairs Bureau, investigates incidents and plausible suspicions of lawbreaking and professional misconduct attributed to officers and enlisted members of the Star Fleet Security Corps.

    I also don't think that the security corps would use a different rank system, being fully integrated with the fleet structure and not a separate military organization. The only changes I see happening are for the Mobile Ground Force and Special Operations Branch, and these start at the 0-6 and above ranks. Captain is replaced with Colonel and Commodore with Brigadier. There is only one grade of Flag officer, and that is General. The senior most general, who serves as the Commandant of the Mobile Ground Force is equivalent to a vice admiral. Now I think that some positions may include traditional titles. The petty officer in charge of a squad will be called a sergeant. Commanders serving as a unit's XO are called Major. A commander in charge of a unit usually commanded by a colonel is called a lieutenant colonel.

    A squad is commanded by a petty officer
    A platoon is commanded by a Lieutenant with an Ensign as XO
    A Company is commanded by a senior Lieutenant Commander or Commander with a Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander as XO
    A MEU is usually commanded by a Colonel, sometimes by a senior Commander (called Lieutenant Colonel) with a Commander (Called Major) as xo.
    A MEB is usually commanded by a Brigadier with a senior colonel as xo.
    A MEF is usually commanded by a General with a senior Brigadier as xo.

    Here is a Table of Organization for the MGF's Light Infantry units. I designed it around the Transporters. The Fleet's standard transporter units are the six man units. I also assume that most "large ships" which would embark larger formations would have four six man units for this layout, except for those designed for assault operations which would use special 24 man units.

    A squad is the smallest Unit within the Infantry. One Line Squad can be assigned to a starships security department as a supplement.

    Line Squad:
    1 Squad Leader
    1 Combat Engineer
    4 Securitymen

    Platoons are usually assigned to starbase and shore facilities security departments as a supplement. They can also be assigned to supplement large starship’s security departments. A Platoon is comprised of three line Squads and one headquarters squad

    Platoon Headquarters Squad:
    1 Platoon Commander
    1 Platoon Sergeant
    1 Combat Corpsman
    1 Combat Engineer
    2 Scout/Sniper

    A Company is usually the largest Infantry unit assigned to a starship or starbase as a supplement. It is comprised of three line platoons and a headquarters & support section.

    Company Headquarters Squad:
    1 Company Commander
    1 Company Executive Officer
    1 Company Clerk
    1 Combat Engineer
    2 Scout/Sniper

    Company Support Squad:
    1 First Sergeant
    2 Combat Medics
    1 Armorer
    2 Securitymen

    Battalions are the basis of the Mobile Expeditionary Unit (MEU), and are the largest Infantry units ever fielded in peace time by the Mobile Ground Force. It is comprised of three line Companies and a Headquarters & Support section.


    Headquarters Section:
    1 Battalion Commander
    1 Battalion Executive Officer
    1 (S-1) Operations Officer
    1 (S-2) Intelligence Officer
    1 (S-3) Logistics Officer
    1 (S-4) Communications Officer

    Support Section:
    1 Sergeant Major
    2 Combat Surgeons
    1 Combat Engineer
    2 Securitymen
     
  19. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Indeed. It's pretty obvious that it is. They have weapons that can destroy any arbitrary target, from a small vehicle (granted, in that Lazarus episode) to the whole biosphere, from orbit.

    I always presumed the "millions" were support personnel. Someone has to be running the logistics. And, heck, just a thousand ships would tie up 500,000 to a million or so all by themselves. With a low estimate of a 2:1 ratio for support to combat, that's three million people already for what seems to be a relatively mid-sized leaning toward small space force.
     
  20. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dare I again dangerously rock the boat by suggesting that other organizations totally separate from Starfleet might have taken on the primary ground combat role for the Federation? My money is still on the Andorians, being more traditionally militaristic and always enjoying a good tussle anyway.

    Since the Federation Starfleet seems to be dominated mostly by pinkskins, the Federation Spacelift probably has a larger ratio of blueskins.