common misconceptions about Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by KaraBear, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    Tuvix was more of a moral issue than a prime directive. Killing him does not interfere with the development of any culture

    the interesting thing I've noticed about people who claim that she broke the prime directive can either never give a list of all those times they claim it happened or they use their negative opinion of the show in general to twist events to make them suit their negative view point
     
  2. The Emissary

    The Emissary Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The Prime Directive goes beyond interfering with alien cultural development. That's only one aspect to it.

    I will definitely concede that at times they (all the shows) evoke the Prime Directive to try and make the episode more...shall we say...controversial? So it has been referred to in multiple circumstances (beyond a pre-warp society). It is hard to say what the Directive solely is.

    I don't have a list off memory because I haven't seen the entire show in years. I did watch it from beginning to end and I know that the prime directive was broken more than that tiny list.

    But if you're only applying it to pre-warp development manipulation. Then yes, Janeway only did that a few times....
     
  3. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    it's easy just to say she broke it, but that doesn't mean much if you can't say when she did it.
     
  4. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    anyway, getting the thread back on topic

    another miconception that I've heard a lot is that Jennifer Lien didn't know she wasn't going to be in the show anymore until she read the script for The Gift

    If you look at the credits for Scorpion part II she is listed as a guest star. That involves a different contract and different pay scale. So I'm sure at that point she was made aware. Plus I would guess she would also have realized that she wasn't in any of the season 4 promo material.
     
  5. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is there anyway to get these blurbs come up instead of the actual blurbs when I'm browsing episodes on Netflix? Because I like these a lot, lot better. Though I really do like the TOS Netflix blurb that mentions "a couple of redshirts."
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Swarm, probably
    just checked- it was- they violated their laws by entering their space and killed those defending their territory

    Blink of an Eye. Though they got there accidentally, it is still technically a violation. People get cited for violation of a policy or law even if it was by accident.


    But the thing is there is more to the PD than what we know canonically, whatever that is. Janeway and her crew probably broke it often due to their predicament.
    I'm sure there's a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  7. The Emissary

    The Emissary Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I have a sneaking suspicion that even if I had presented such a list...you'd nitpick it and argue semantics (such as saying the PD only applies to pre-warp societies - when it doesn't).

    One misconception I've noticed is VOY is cited as "ruining" the Borg because they were constantly destroying Cubes and the like. From what I recall, they never did that. Usually when the Borg popped up, they fled or had to use a creative way to beat them (ex. beaming a torpedo onto the sphere). I don't recall them blowing up Cubes (minus the time they used future tech).

    The only thing I can recall that was sketchy was VOY taking on that Tactical Cube, but I don't remember if they destroyed it or not.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    In "Dark Frontier" (I think), they somehow beam a photon torpedo through Borg shields and detonated it. I've never figured out how they did that.
     
  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    This is one of the biggest critisims I've heared levelled against VOY. Now if they wanted her to be the book Captain fine, if they wanted her to be more of a loose cannon fine. If they wanted to show a progression from b the book to a more of do what I need to get my crew home fine. But pick one and run with it not fluctutate back and forth.

    VOY's premise clearly indicated it should be a more serialised show, yet it was basically TNG 2.0 highly episodic. That isn't to say they never had continuity but they should have had more.

    The ship seemed to look like it had just left Utopia PLanitia almost every week. No matter how much damage it had taken the previous week.

    It was supposed to be resource poor but they seemed to have an endless supply of shuttles and they managed to manufacture not 1 but 2 Delta Flyers.

    It was clearly stated in dialouge they couldn't replace the 38 Photon Torpedeos they had. Yet they fired more than that.

    No Explantion given Not even lip service paid in a log entry.

    Some characters showed almost zero growth between "Caretaker" and "Endgame"

    As for critisims about overuse of time-travel maybe unfounded but perhaps that is down to perception, the previous Trek shows might have done similiar time-travel shows so there was nothing new there.

    One nickname I've heard/seen used for VOY is TNG-lite. Which is basically saying that it's trying to emulate TNG but it's not as good.

    But a lot comes down to what stories you like, what order you watched the ST shows I was one of the TOS-TNG-DSN-VOY-ENT crowd. Voyager could have been so much more had it dared to try but it didin't it decided to play safe. Yes some of that is know doubt down to network interferrence.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Q's kid q got into a huge amount of trouble because he crossed a line of space he shouldn't have that he was told not to and it pissed off an arbitrary alien species that wanted him to face alien justice for his alien crimes. This is the episode where Icheb hillllllllllllllariously says " Captain Janeway taught me to respect the laws of alien cultures!" The alien laws said that Icheb and q had to have their arms cut off and bleed out because they trespassed. It was death sentence. Janeway sent two children to their deaths because whimsy had her finally remember that other space governments have rights.

    In comparison...

    30 days.

    Tom uses phontonic torpedoes like a terrorist to destroy an alien power station like a terrorist, throwing their culture ass over tea kettle as they're shit out of luck to have enough power any more to feed, clothe and heat the complete limits of their population who are terrified of the terrorist Tom Paris. Those aliens wanted to take Tom in for questioning, but Janeway ran. She ran for thirty days, while they chased her and shot at her, making the entire crew complicit with Terrorist Tom's terrorism.

    Swarm.

    Janeway trespassed, just the same as q and icheb trespassed. Exactly the same! The difference is that q submitted himself to be executed by stoopid over reactionary aliens and Janeway is a stoopid over reactionary alien who mass murdered 10's of thousands of brave patriots protecting frightened women and children from scum like this Federation captain trying to avoid her day in court. Seriously "Fuck the law I'm charming! Submit to my charm or die." This is the same ad hoc crap what she says in Counterpoint to Cashak "I'm not afraid of the prime directive because I can weasel my way out of any enquiry, trial or court-martial because the admiralty loves me. I am above the law! HA! Now, kiss me you sexy beast!" Look it up.

    Prime Factors.

    Her crew stole propriety technology from a species that should have been able to lob torpedoes at them for the next 50 thousand light years making her brawl with the kazon look like a disagreement with a bouncer at a strip club. Did they give it back and apologise? No. They ran. (Just compare that to Picard in Pegasus.) Sure she was duped by her Vulcan who thought he knew better, and he got a permanent mark in his record... Which hardly explains his promotion not much more than a year later. This was is the episode where she says that the Prime Directive means that they don't give away technology to ANYONE, and even though the sexy alien leader who wants to sniff her feet (not a good thing, he had such a weird seedy vibe.) says that he has exactly the same law which he thinks is just as important, even prime... But fuck him. Take want you want and fuck the consequences.

    Back to Q squarred...

    Icheb and q weren't allowed to fuck the consequences, they had to face the consequences, which was death... As if the godlings god father would have allowed that if he could have even died in the first place and despite the uniform q was wearing, not her problem... And icheb was riding on q's coattails, so he was probably 50/50.

    Kathryn Janeway is not a nice person.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg have a history of not raising their shields until they feel threatened.

    Hundreds of Federations commando's can be crawling about a tactical cube, and the Borg can still feel unthreatened.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Wait a minute. Wasn't that pissed off arbitrary alien species actually Daddy Q in disguise?

    Icheb, today's lesson is about the Kama Sutra.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So basically the concept of this thread is the OP asking and/or complaining that everyone doesn't like Voyager as much as they do? :p
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They didn't know that yet.

    Maybe Janeway figured it out and that's why she thought giving q back a corpse at the end of her babysitting gig, if there was a %1 chance she was wrong and it was a real pissed off alien, was a good idea?

    At a point like this, it is the parent, or godparent in this case, who is supposed to stand up and take responsibilities for their idiot (god) children.

    Your 16 year old child crashes your car into a phone pole.

    The police are put out too.

    Who is going to pay for the damages, and fines?

    You or your jobless, witless child?
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it's completely educational.
     
  16. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    It ain't gonna be me, I ain't got no kids. :p

    Ain't got no car either.
     
  17. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's not the big reason. The Borg were ruined as a villain because Voyager never lost any crew to them. No deaths, no assimilations. Voyager scored over them time and time again and they were totally ineffective. Voyager liberated drones, started Borg revolts, even had some of their crew get voluntarily assimilated and then escape. There were never any consequences. This was the horrific scary villain? You could no longer take the Borg seriously as an opponent.

    In TNG the Borg were the equivalent of Jason Vorhees.

    In VOY they were the equivalent of Wile. E. Coyote.
     
  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well to be slighlty fair to VOY the Borg started to go down hill in TNG's "Descent", Yes I know that wasn't the collective they were dealing with in that particular episode.

    They made 6 apperances in TNG, 1 in DSN and ENT and 22 in VOY.

    In the case of VOY they first appeared in "Unity" and lastly in "Endgame" A span of something like 114 episodes. So that would be ~20% (or one fifth)of all episode from first apperance to last apperance within the show. The problem any show has that overuse of a villian can lead to villian decay.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Scorpious from farscqape rocked from beginning to end.

    A villain who's character, who's actors internal fire kept the dread alive despite surviving some of the worst imaginable scripts had to be Ronald Sandoval from Earth Final Conflict.

    Oh! What about Julian Sark from Alias?

    The Good Guys finally capture him and threaten torture, he giggles, and explains that all they need for his absolute yet temporary loyalty is to pay him one dollar more than his current employers.
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Guy Gardener has hella big cuffs.