Circumstantial Evidence?/Why did spock end up in alt. universe?[Merge]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by GeneHunt, May 11, 2010.

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  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why did spock end up in the alternate universe??

    The writers decide that stardates should make sense now, and it gets used as "proof" that Nimoy Spock isn't from Classic Trek, undermining the whole point of his cameo. :lol:
     
  2. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Circumstantial Evidence?

    Okay, just to stir the pot a little.[​IMG]

    There has been a theory floating around various Trek discussion forums, including this one, that OldSpock and Nero may not be from the original universe that we know and love (despite what the writers would have us believe). I am a very vocal proponent of this theory. And there are several reasons for this. First, we know what TNG-era 24th century Romulans look like.
    [​IMG]This is a TNG-era Romulan.

    And we also know what Nero and his fellow Abramsverse Rommies look like.
    [​IMG]This is Nero.

    Notice the differences? TNG Rommies have hair. They also have very pronounced eyebrow and forhead ridges. Abramsverse Rommies are bald and tatooed. Horatio calls them "Tatoomulans". That sounds appropriate. Notice also that Nero has no eyebrow or forehead ridges. In fact, the only thing that the Abramsverse Rommies have in common with the original universe versions is their pointy ears. And even those aren't exactly right.

    Then there's the Narada. Again, we know what Romulan starships look like.
    [​IMG]This is a TNG-era Warbird.

    We know from TNG and the TNG-era movies what the 24th century Romulan design aesthetic is. The Narada follows none of the design parameters of the established 24th century Romulan designs. I know that according to "Countdown", the Narada is supposedly Borgified. But that is not established in the movie. According to the on screen dialogue, the Narada "is a simple mining vessel". If that is the case, then why is it five times as big as a warbird and more powerful?

    Based on these obvious differences, I would have to surmise that Nero and OldSpock are not from the original TOS/TNG universe that we know. They are probably from a similar, yet slightly different alternate universe where Romulans evolved without eyebrow ridges, developed an affinity for Darth Maul facial tatoos, and applied their technology to the mining industry rather than the military. This would explain why they didn't have the technology to stop the star from destroying their planet and needed help from the more technologically advanced Vulcans and Federation.

    Considering that Romulans of the 24th century TNG-era can make their own artificial black holes to power their starships, it would stand to reason that they would not need Spock to take out the supernova. They were technologically advanced enough to do it themselves.

    This is all just a theory which seems to fit the facts (as seen on screen). I tend to agree with this. It makes sense. To me, there's no way that "our" Spock would allow his home planet to be destroyed. However, OldSpock is probably intellegent enough to know that he came through the black hole/temporal whatchamajigger into an alternate universe and that the Vulcan that was destroyed wasn't "his" home world. That's probably why he wasn't too keen on slingshotting around the sun and fixing everyghing. We know he knew how to do it. Unless, of course, this Spock had never done that maneuver in his universe??? Hmmmm. We may never know.

    I know. I just love to stir the pot.[​IMG]

    Note: Unfortunately, the pics won't show if you're not logged in to startrekmovie.com at the same time. Sorry. If this forum would let me post pics from my hard drive like startrekmovie.com does, you would be able to see what the heck I'm talking about.
     
  3. MvRojo

    MvRojo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Too lazy to read the whole thing, so I'll address the first issue regarding the Romulans.

    Weren't there Romulans with hair when Spock Prime melds with Kirk? And the eyebrow ridges weren't there during TOS.
     
  4. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    But Nero isn't a TOS Romulan. He's from the 24th century.
     
  5. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    It's arguable. The ludicrous design and power differential of the Narada are the strongest pointers since it's entirely possible that a side effect of working on the mining ship is hair/ridge loss.

    I think they could probably have made the Narada a more credible threat if Nero had been portrayed as intelligent rather than just awesomely powerful. As a renegade with future knowledge he could have gathered some interesting forces to his banner in the 25 years he has to hang around. I realise that they didn't have a whole lot of time to spend on him because they had to introduce a lot of characters but it was a bit of a waste.
     
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Rabid lover of the totally separate universe's idea, just don't think that the universe shown after the Narada's arrival could have made THAT many changes in a mere quarter century solely because one ship (Kirk's dad's) was destroyed. So probabaly the universe that Nero emerged into was already substancially different place to start with, simular in some ways yes, but still a separate alternate parallel universe.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    double post.
     
  8. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Welcome to last year. Enjoy your stay. :vulcan:
     
  9. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    That's another theory I completely agree with. I think that OldSpock and Nero emerged in an alternate universe that was similar, but still substantially different than the one they came from. Again, despite what the writers would have us believe. That would explain a great many things that simply don't add up in the movie.
     
  10. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Could you please respect what the writers tried to do and leave the film alone please another STXI lover here I'm getting tired of people nitpicking every single bloody detail of the movie for goodness sake it's just a film.
     
  11. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    If that is the case, it may be a good idea for you to take a break from Star Trek discussion forums for a little while.:rolleyes:
     
  12. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Are you starting on me again just saying what I think
     
  13. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Nope. Just dispensing a little friendly advice. Hope you find it helpful.
     
  14. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    I don't need to take a break I'm quite well do you think I'm insane
     
  15. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Honestly? The thought has occurred to me.
     
  16. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    I-Am-Zim please don't think I'm being nasty to other people I don't intend to cause hassle I'm just as a Nutrek fan just addressing what I personally feel it's a discussion board after all.
     
  17. I-Am-Zim

    I-Am-Zim Captain

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    It is indeed. And you are hijacking my thread. If you have an opinion concerning the topic at hand, please feel free to express it. If not, go somewhere else.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Zim: There are a few flaws in your theory. First, Nero's wife had hair, and so did one of the female crew members, so obviously Nero and (male) crews' baldness is of choice, not genetics.

    And I can think of many reasons why his crew shaved their heads. Perhaps it's a culture thing with the mining guild he belongs to (tattoos and all). Maybe they didn't want excess hair getting caught in machinery, as there's all sorts of moving parts in the Narada. Maybe the ship gets really hot inside, and they just want to cool off. Maybe it just makes them feel like they're a bunch of badasses. Etc.

    Second, there are aliens (such as Klingons and Bolians) even in the TNG era that look extremely different from one another, and yet are the same species. So why not the Romulans? Plus, it could be a culture thing too. Maybe the brow-ridged Romulans get to be warbird crewmembers, and the non-brow-ridged Romulans work as miners, just like the poor Nosferatu-looking Romulans have to mine dilithium on Remus.

    Third, a mining vessel is going to look completely different from a warbird, based on its function. Just because the Narada is big and tentacle-ly and not shaped like a bird means nada. Does a bulldozer look like a police car?


    Honestly, these are very flimsy points to base your hypothesis on.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  19. Char Aznable

    Char Aznable Lieutenant Commander

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    Nero didn't have the TNG style forehead ridges because they were stupid and rightfully done away with. The look in XI was just fine IMO
     
  20. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Circumstantial Evidence?

    YES!!!!! This, so much. And since when does everyone in a race wear the SAME haircut? Anyway, this "theory" is a desperate grasp at straws. . . I mean, you could say the same thing about TOS and TMP. . . the Klingons look totally different with their head ridges, and the uniforms totally didn't evolve from the previous model. . .


    ~FS
     
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