"Children of Earth" & the Right to Bear Arms (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by The Borgified Corpse, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    I've long been an advocate of the right to bear arms. Now, I think "Children of Earth" illustrates the reasons for that more eloquently than I ever could.

    "Children of Earth" is science fiction. However, there's no denying that the government officials depicted here are even more monstrous than the 456 aliens. And sadly, I think the depictions of the government here may be all too plausible. There may come a day when the government decides, in the "national interest," to come for you or your children. If that day comes, it would be best for the populace to be as well armed as possible. We have an inalienable right to defend our own homes & families. No government has the right to interfere with that and any government that tries should be met with deadly force.



    ~The Borgified Corpse, proud to be an American.
    Long live the 2nd Amendment.
     
  2. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    The only thing I see changing had there been more guns is that there would have been more blood shed.
     
  3. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe it's being British, but I never could grasp this notion that somehow possesion of a gun makes you safe? So you have a Beretta 9mm in your bedside draw, in all seriousness how much use is that going to be when 20 armed soldiers with M-16s turn up at your door? The guns make everyone equal argument is a huge falacy, because they don't. Someone will always have a bigger gun, more guns, be a better shot etc.

    For the most part the government troops will always be better armed, better trained, better organised. And not to mention your neighbour might have a bigger gun and decide to protect his kid at the expense of yours.

    In the context of Torchwood Children of Earth, in the end Gwen had a gun, but one or two pistols against a dozen men armed with SA-80s? Maybe in NRA fantasy land that's be a fair fight but in reality her best option was still to just hide, then run.
     
  4. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not one thing in the entire world "makes" you safe. Not the police, not the fire department, not your home security system, not your locked door, and not your fire extinguisher in your kitchen, and not at all your privately owned firearm. What these things do is help enhance your level of safety, each in their own way. Some passive, some active, and some with user input. ;)

    At that point having a Beretta 9mm and not having a Beretta 9mm are both going to wind up meaning about the same thing. 20 armed soldiers showing up at your door isn't likely to end well for you whether or not you're armed. Now, two-baseball bat wielding rapists/thieves on the other hand, that's a different story.

    And some fires are too hot for my fire extinguisher and some car accidents are too brutal for my seat belt, but each one has situations in which they CAN help, even save my life.

    Ideally it wouldn't have just been Gwen, though, right? It would have been Gwen, and her neighbor, and that guy's neighbor, and the bloke across the street, and so forth.
     
  5. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Considering what Forbisher does once he's got a gun, you could just as easily argue that it's making a case against the parents having arms.
     
  6. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, because there is a real risk of alien invasion any day now ... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Worf2DS9

    Worf2DS9 Writer Rear Admiral

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    ^ You never know... :D
     
  8. wamdue

    wamdue Admiral Admiral

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    you never know it might be the US liberal gun policy that keeps them from invading, when you add up all the guns & missiles in the world, we are not a totally defenceless little planet, get rid of all of them, and who knows.
     
  9. Spiderpope

    Spiderpope Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Giving everyone on a council estate a gun. Thats bound to turn out well.
     
  10. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    If the news it to be believed everyone on council estates already has either a knife or a gun.
     
  11. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Premium Member

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    I live on a council estate (well it's housing society but that pretty much means the same) and I don't own a knife for my protection, nor do I own or ever intend on holding a gun. Like most people though I own a knife to cut vegetables and meat up though. :vulcan:

    Wheres the tosser smiley when you need it? :rolleyes:
     
  12. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    Yeah, I meant the "shut up or I'll knife ya" kind of knife... I live on a council estate myself and don't go round with knives or guns... It was just a sarcastic response to that comment.
     
  13. Spiderpope

    Spiderpope Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I live on an estate myself and i too dont own any lethal weapons. But i also know what a disaster it would be if half the people living on the same estate suddenly had the right to keep a loaded gun. We have enough problems with idiots armed with Air rifles.
     
  14. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    :lol: Good one.
     
  15. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Legalizing or not legalizing guns is not what causes gun violence, actually. As Michael Moore pointed out in Bowling for Columbine, Canada has a similar per capita rate of gun ownership to the United States, yet they have much less gun violence than the U.S. does.

    Gun violence in the U.S. is so pervasive because the U.S. has a toxic, fear-based, classist culture that encourages violence and alienation rather than egalitarianism.
     
  16. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    You might just as well argue that "Children of Earth" clearly shows that the military and intelligence services should be abolished. They're just too dangerous to be kept around. At some point someone is going to misuse them.

    Or maybe "Children of Earth" shows that the United Nations are evil and should be abolished, since UNIT personnel effectively takes over the UK government during the crisis and orders to take the children by force.

    Or maybe "Children of Earth" shows that the United Kingdom should withdraw from NATO, since it's mostly U.S. military personnel which effectively takes over the UK government.

    So, "Children of Earth"'s message is basically anti-military, pro-gun, anti-UN, and anti-American.


    Or maybe it's the best if you don't see any political message in "Torchwood"... there really aren't many. :)
     
  17. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    the 2nd amendment actually means that people should keep arms to form a militia. since the establishment of the US Army, there is no need for the right to bear arms. too bad too many stupid ass Americans fail to realise that and repeal the 2nd amendment.
     
  18. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.
     
  19. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. In fact, most military conflicts are rarely "fair" fights. However, the military vs. a dozen armed civilians would be a much fairer fight than the military vs. a dozen unarmed civilians. And as for numbers, it looked pretty evenly matched when Andy, Ianto's brother-in-law, & those other guys attacked those soldiers. I suspect that in any similar situation where the government becomes impossibly tyrannical, the number of free-thinking civilians will far outnumber the military.

    Really, what other option is there when the government decides to go to war against its own people?

    Like I said, the alien invasion aspect is pure science fiction. However, I think it's always a very practical question of what is society doing to safeguard itself against such unacceptable government intrusion.

    That was what the 2nd Simpsons Halloween special speculated. "Ahh! He's got a board with a nail through it!"

    Clearly the military & intelligence services should not be abolished. Generally, they do a good job of providing for the common defense against external threats in ways that the people are ill-equipped for. However, I think "Children of Earth" does raise the issue of what can happen if we put unyielding trust in the government and don't take additional precautions to defend ourselves when the government becomes the enemy. What else do you suggest? That we surrender like sheep to the slaughter?

    The whole point of this conversation is that there is a need for the right to bear arms precisely because we have a large Army that is not under the direct control of the people.

    Also, I have a different interpretation of the 2nd Amendment from you. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" (emphasis mine). While forming a militia is the suggested purpose of the 2nd Amendment, it is the right of the people to keep arms for it. Also, since the 2nd Amendment never explicitly defines a "militia" in clear, legal, constitutional terms, I believe it is up to the people to form & regulate militias as they see fit.
     
  20. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    ^RTD Said his point was basically to show the supposedly "civilised" world isn't as civilised as it likes to pretend, and could easily become oppressive and genocidal if push came to shove...