Chakotay was in Starfleet for twenty years before the series?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by DS9forever, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    According to Memory Alpha, Chakotay graduated from Starfleet Academy in 2348, meaning he was in Starfleet for a good twenty years before leaving to join the Maquis.

    Doesn't that make him more experienced than Janeway? And why didn't Janeway just restore his rank when he joined Voyager, instead of giving him that dumb provisional rank insignia, for all seven years?
     
  2. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Are you suggesting Janeway should have stepped down as Captain after bringing Chakotay aboard?
     
  3. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She could have least have given him the three Starfleet pips of the commander rank.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    He did check out after three years (or at least Beltran did).
     
  5. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    How do you know she didn't offer them to him? All we know is that he wore provisional pips and that there was an agreement between them to run Voyager as a Starfleet ship. Anything else is conjecture. I can actually think of reasons why he would offer to be provisional Starfleet, and why he would have encouraged the Maquis to be Starfleet also. You are also making the assumption that years in Starfleet are equal, I assure you that even in the real world, years of general experience are always beat out by specific experience. Meaning, apparently (again speculation because of lack of specific knowledge) Chakotay had not commanded a Starfleet ship, the back story originally projected for Janeway; was that she had commanded a ship previously. There is also no evidence that Chakotay never held Starfleet rank above Commander while Janeway was actually a Captain.
     
  6. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Voyager was Janeway's ship. She was the captain. It doesn't matter how long Chakotay served or what his rank was before he resigned, at the time she offered him the 2nd chair he was not a Starfleet officer. The compromise was for the Starfleet and Maquis crew to serve together as one to find a way home. But it was still Janeway's ship.

    If you quit your job to spend a year climbing a mountain or whatever, you have given up your claim to that job and any benefits that went with it. If you come back and the company offers to rehire you but at a lower pay grade, it's up to you to decide whether or not you take the job.

    I don't see a problem there.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What? How old IS the guy?

    I thought he was like, 38.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Beltran was about 42 when the series launched, Chakotay (born 2329) about the same age when the ship was launched (2371). Those are Memory Alpha dates.

    Though we've seen human characters played older than their actors, notably with Picard being about 10 years older than Patrick Stewart's actual age.
     
  9. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    Chakotay left Starfleet, so he gave up his rank. Janeway didn't have the power to fully reinstate him so she had to give the provisional rank. I think even Tom should have had a provisional rank
     
  10. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    What was with the weird provisional rank insignias? I never saw anything like that on Wesley after Picard promoted him to Ensign.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Chuckles was in Starfleet for 20 years?!? Holy shit. I've gotta get round to reading Mosaic and Pathways
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't Weasely's pip (initially) off one of the other command officers neck?

    Wes' rank was completely made up.

    You'd have to wonder what would happen when he tried to boss around the enlisted twice his age?

    Captain Chakotay Wore Pips in Before and After.

    From a costume point of view, they couldn't be bothered making a Captains Maquis provisional rank badge, from a Captain Chakotay's point of view "screw that bipolar ghost #####'s ass."

    canon conflicts.

     
  13. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    Some of the things in the books have been contradicted in the show, but overall I think those were really great books
     
  14. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Neelix would have been a better captain than janeway, the computer would have made a better captain, one of Harry Kims stools would have made a better captain...but you still can't realistically expect a member of the Maquis, who abandoned star fleet to take over a ship just because he is more experienced
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Starfleet probably bought him by promising him the two pips. Janeway thus felt she had the authority to deliver them after the capture-Chakotay-and-relieve-Tuvok mission went (mostly) as planned; that'd be different from Janeway giving pips to the Maquis on her own account.

    The officers he bossed around in "Pen Pals" weren't all that much younger. And if O'Brien is any indication, enlisted in the future still cower before the bright shine of collar brass.

    As for Janeway's "first command", it could be a tale of two meanings: first time commanding a mission vs. first time commanding a ship. There's something of a distinction there; even the Spock/McCoy agreement that the command of the Galileo was Spock's first could fall in this category, the shuttle indeed being the first spacecraft whose crew Spock commanded even though the Vulcan had commanded a large number of missions before.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    O'Brien's the equivalent of a 20-year Sergeant snapping to attention when a peach fuzzed Lieutenant walks by.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...Or at least when a thick-bearded Commander does so. ;)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    no, according to Caretaker after their two week trip he was going right back to jail, and Janeway would give him a good word at his next review
     
  19. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    well since he's not an officer even an ensign outranks him
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that's what she said - but not necessarily what she was planning on really doing with Tom afterwards. She certainly wouldn't promise too much, but promising less than was coming would be a good tactical move in bribing the somewhat likeable criminal.

    Tom's conduct in "Caretaker" wasn't particularly saintly, so what made Janeway "change her mind" would be either the unexpected circumstances, or the fact that she and Starfleet had been planning on absolving Tom in the first place, or then both. Certainly the ship still retained a working brig for Tom to inhabit (and this might have been the safest place for him aboard a ship full of Maquis) if Janeway wanted to stay true to her word.

    Timo Saloniemi